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Glorio
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Ched Evans (conviction quashed)

2 years ago

If you don't know about him, he was accused and convicted of rape 2 years ago but has now been released and while he's steadfastly denied it, he's now pushing to clear his name.

Now I personally don't have a clue whether he did it or not but I found all the arguments on his website compelling:
http://chedevans.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

He was found guilty in a court of law of rape. So he's guilty, he's a rapist.

Now I'm all for rehabilitation and second chances but it hardly sends out the right message for aspiring youngsters.
And he hasn't technically 'served his time'.

So, I see both sides of the argument. To be honest, if he can put up with the abuse that he's going to get from the stands then good luck to him. He'll need it.

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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Nothing wrong with it. People are only arsed cos he's a footballer, would have no problem if it was a binman. Same types who think soldiers should be paid footballers wages.

He should be entitled to play again and make his living but clubs are under no obligation to actually sign him.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

There's no right or wrong answer to this.

Personally I'm in support of tending towards forgiveness and believe that people should not necessarily be condemned for life no matter how awful a thing they've done. As individuals our brain processes are constantly changing; some change for better, some change for worse. It's important to remember that people change over time.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

I think he should be allowed back into the game providing he agrees to (is forced to) pay a sizable chunk of his substantial wages to a rape support group of some sort.

Would also imply some sort of "sympathy" for rape victims at least, (regardless of whether he actually did commit rape or not)
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Why should he pay money towards that certain charity if he hasn't done it? He's done time for something he hasn't (in this context) done.

Reading a lot of facts about this case, I don't think he did it, but either way I believe he should be allowed to play football again. His reputation is in tatters and he will forever have that stigma attatched to him. If a football club deems him good enough, then leave him to it.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

[pen]He was found guilty in a court of law of rape. So he's guilty, he's a rapist.[/pen]

Now I'm all for rehabilitation and second chances but it hardly sends out the right message for aspiring youngsters.
And he hasn't technically 'served his time'.

So, I see both sides of the argument. To be honest, if he can put up with the abuse that he's going to get from the stands then good luck to him. He'll need it.

I don't think it necessarily applies. People have been accused and convicted falsely before. I will never condone anything as disgusting as rape but the woman did seem well within her senses in that video. I wonder if he actually did what he's been accused of in the first place - I hope actual justice is done in that regard (that is if it isn't done already).
Meanwhile, are we allowed to debate the actual conviction or does the law forbid it?
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

lol... Don't know any more with all the legal complexities.

That said, you can be done by writing/speaking your opinion these days
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

That woman accosted by that journalist I posted before, also Holocaust denial.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

As my learned Rumpole of Leftbank will confirm. A court of law cant prove that anyone is guilty, it can only show that someone is guilty "beyond reasonable doubt". Evans was found guilty of rape and dealt with accordingly. It doesnt mean he did it "de facto", it means he did it "de jure" :P
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Nothing wrong with it. People are only arsed cos he's a footballer, would have no problem if it was a binman. Same types who think soldiers should be paid footballers wages.
No shit no one would give a fornicate if he was a binman. People released from prison have a right to earn money and make a living. But there are certain professions that do not hire convicted rapists, doctors lawyers are one of them. Bin man is not one of them.

But football is a professions in the public eye, that sees the professionals viewed by children and role models.

In this certain case, youngsters will see a guy convicted of rape, gather momentum from his family and supporters to chase the victim out of town, and then come back 2 years later and play football again. Whats the message sent out there?
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

I think he should be allowed back into the game providing he agrees to (is forced to) pay a sizable chunk of his substantial wages to a rape support group of some sort.

Would also imply some sort of "sympathy" for rape victims at least, (regardless of whether he actually did commit rape or not)

Except lets not forget that Evans, his family, supporters, friends, and sheffield fans abused the victim to such an extent where she was publicly condemned to the point where she was forced out of town

Remorse eh?
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

I think the problem here is people dont understand the ambiguity of the definition of rape. Its not black or white and down to whether she said yes or no to sex

Dont forget his teammate was found innocent. The girl may have been a slag, but she consente d to sex with his teammate. She went home with him. Its where Evans comes in that is up for debate and he was found guilty in a court of law

This is the best article and opinion ive read on the matter

http://sabotagetimes.com/sport/ched-eva ... -football/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Nothing wrong with it. People are only arsed cos he's a footballer, would have no problem if it was a binman. Same types who think soldiers should be paid footballers wages.
No shit no one would give a fornicate if he was a binman. People released from prison have a right to earn money and make a living. But there are certain professions that do not hire convicted rapists, doctors lawyers are one of them. Bin man is not one of them.

But football is a professions in the public eye, that sees the professionals viewed by children and role models.

In this certain case, youngsters will see a guy convicted of rape, gather momentum from his family and supporters to chase the victim out of town, and then come back 2 years later and play football again. Whats the message sent out there?
Why should he be banned from playing because some fans posted abuse on Twitter? Those fans have been charged and fined, nothing to do with Ched, he was in prison. He was sentenced to five years, not five years and no more being a footballer. It's the fact he's going to earn a ton of cash again that winds people up.

Rape is becoming similar to paedophilia in the sense that certain groups of people just absolutely lose their shit and only a lifelong frenzied witch hunt will suffice.

Tbh my dad was always my role model, I copied tricks down the park but that's about it. If your kid sees a convicted rapist as a role model because he is in the scheme of things average at playing football then you're a shit parent. If they think rape is okay because someone convicted of it now has a life after having spent years inside then they aren't the sharpest knife in the draw.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Only men can be charged with rape in the UK.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1 Rape

(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.

(3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.

(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

M'learned friend the Red Ste is correct with regards to the law.

The better example of Mav's would be that us men who, at the age of 16, received that first tentative blowjob from our girlfriend when she was 15, are all rapists. fornicate a girl someone while she's asleep is just a bit creepy...

With regards to the Evans case:
1) He has been found guilty by a court of law, therefore until that changes he is (de jure) a rapist, and should be treated as such
2) There is no legal or public policy reason why Evans should not play football again. It's a PR issue for Sheffield United.
3) Evans is free to protest his innocence, but the issue is that in the way he is protesting his innocence, he is inciting abuse of his (de jure) victim. He has not gone far enough in telling those supporting him to leave her alone. And he should because the more she is abused the less likely it is his conviction will be quashed.
4) Furthermore, he has not denounced those who have jumped on his bandwagon that regularly blame rape victims for the way they act, or dress i.e. saying it was their fault, they should expect it if they act in a particular way, boys will be boys etc. If he came out and said "Thousands of women get raped every day, and it is never their fault. I totally abhor the idea that a woman is ever responsible for the actions of rapists. The accusations made against me are false and demean the plight of rape victims, making it harder for them to get the convictions they deserve" he would get a lot more sympathy
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Was this case with Evans real rape or just some drunk chick who fornicate a guy at a bar/party and regretted it the next day?
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Was this case with Evans real rape or just some drunk chick who fornicate a guy at a bar/party and regretted it the next day?
seems like she went home with one bloke then some other oddball turned up to me. How much was consensual seems to be the whole question.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Yeah, I did some research on it. Its a tough situation to call really. Normally I think siding with the drunk girl instead of the drunk guy when its a his word vs her word situation is stupid, but this is such a weird case, showing up in the middle of other people having sex and tagging in... if she was really drunk then she might not have noticed the switch, and that is wrong.

How did she know who it was in the morning if both guys were gone?
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Was this case with Evans real rape or just some drunk chick who fornicate a guy at a bar/party and regretted it the next day?
See it's ridiculous comments like that trivialise it, so if a guy isn't forcing a girl down or using violence it's not rape. Yes she was drunk but if she was in no fit state to give consent then he raped her. The fact of the matter is two guys had sex with her, one was cleared, one wasn't. It wasn't a she said, he said story because she couldn't remember.So there must have been evidence against him, rape is one of the hardest things to get convictions against. If he said she gave consent and she said she didn't then it would have been thrown out, the jury in that case could not conclude that there wasn't doubt there.
If she woke up the next day and regretted it, wouldn't she just want to forget it? Why would she go to the police? Go through that ordeal? The medical exam, the questioning, her name being dragged through the mud? Someone might say she wanted her name in the papers, to sell her story. They why would she go through the whole process as anonymous? She is a fornicate victim and yet she has been treated as the criminal by some people. How can he walk back to his high paying job and life while she has to suffer abuse and change her identity?
The question comes down to how good do you think the justice system is here? 12 people who don't know either person were presented with the facts of the case. They concluded it was rape, yes they do get it wrong sometimes but more times than not, they get it right. It has to be a majority verdict. So 10 people found him and not the other guy guilty beyond reasonable doubt. That has to be saying something.

Out of every 100 rapes, 40 get reported to the police, only 3 end up spending a day in prison. That's how hard it is to get a conviction and yet he was found guilty, he spent 2 years in prison, those who say he did his time, did he really? It was a 5 year sentence. He has shown no remorse at all, even if he believes he's innocent, the women couldn't remember what happened, she didn't make up a pack of lies against him and yet he doesn't say a word to his family and friends who are making her life a misery.

Playing football is his job but it is in the public eye. The way he has acted has shown young kids they can treat women like shit and expect to get their life back. He could have come out with a damning statement against rape and still protested his innocence but he hasn't, he has just added more fire against the victim.
: ‘A woman clearly does not have the capacity to make a choice if she is completely unconscious through the effects of drink or drugs, but there are various stages of consciousness from being awake to dim awareness of reality.
‘In a state of dim and drunken awareness you may, or may not, be in a condition to make choices. Was she in a condition in which she was capable of making any choice one way or another?
‘If you are sure that she was not, then she did not consent.
‘If on the other hand you conclude that she chose to agree to sexual intercourse, or may have done, then you must find the defendants not guilty.’

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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Yeah, I did some research on it.  Its a tough situation to call really.  Normally I think siding with the drunk girl instead of the drunk guy when its a his word vs her word situation is stupid, but this is such a weird case, showing up in the middle of other people having sex and tagging in... if she was really drunk then she might not have noticed the switch, and that is wrong.  

How did she know who it was in the morning if both guys were gone?
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Was this case with Evans real rape or just some drunk chick who fornicate a guy at a bar/party and regretted it the next day?
See it's ridiculous comments like that trivialise it, so if a guy isn't forcing a girl down or using violence it's not rape. Yes she was drunk but if she was in no fit state to give consent then he raped her. The fact of the matter is two guys had sex with her, one was cleared, one wasn't. It wasn't a she said, he said story because she couldn't remember.So there must have been evidence against him, rape is one of the hardest things to get convictions against. If he said she gave consent and she said she didn't then it would have been thrown out, the jury in that case could not conclude that there wasn't doubt there.
If she woke up the next day and regretted it, wouldn't she just want to forget it? Why would she go to the police? Go through that ordeal? The medical exam, the questioning, her name being dragged through the mud? Someone might say she wanted her name in the papers, to sell her story. They why would she go through the whole process as anonymous? She is a fornicate victim and yet she has been treated as the criminal by some people. How can he walk back to his high paying job and life while she has to suffer abuse and change her identity?
The question comes down to how good do you think the justice system is here? 12 people who don't know either person were presented with the facts of the case. They concluded it was rape, yes they do get it wrong sometimes but more times than not, they get it right. It has to be a majority verdict. So 10 people found him and not the other guy guilty beyond reasonable doubt. That has to be saying something.

Out of every 100 rapes, 40 get reported to the police, only 3 end up spending a day in prison. That's how hard it is to get a conviction and yet he was found guilty, he spent 2 years in prison, those who say he did his time, did he really? It was a 5 year sentence. He has shown no remorse at all, even if he believes he's innocent, the women couldn't remember what happened, she didn't make up a pack of lies against him and yet he doesn't say a word to his family and friends who are making her life a misery.

Playing football is his job but it is in the public eye. The way he has acted has shown young kids they can treat women like shit and expect to get their life back. He could have come out with a damning statement against rape and still protested his innocence but he hasn't, he has just added more fire against the victim.
: ‘A woman clearly does not have the capacity to make a choice if she is completely unconscious through the effects of drink or drugs, but there are various stages of consciousness from being awake to dim awareness of reality.
‘In a state of dim and drunken awareness you may, or may not, be in a condition to make choices. Was she in a condition in which she was capable of making any choice one way or another?
‘If you are sure that she was not, then she did not consent.
‘If on the other hand you conclude that she chose to agree to sexual intercourse, or may have done, then you must find the defendants not guilty.’
There are so many stories out there of two equal people, being at a bar or party, both drinking heavily and they end of having sex. There are tons of these situations that result in the guy getting charged with rape and never a situation where a girl is. If two people are in the same state why does one sex have all the responsibility to do the right thing? And the other is just a victim. If you drink yourself into a state where you aren't acting rationally you only have yourself to blame and should take responsibilty for your actions, no matter what sex you are.

And again, after reading more details of this story, this doesn't really seem to be the case here, I would probably side with the girl in this case.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Where are the tons of these situations Relly? Genuine question
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Out of every 100 rapes, 40 get reported to the police, only 3 end up spending a day in prison.
Can't just throw numbers like that around and especially without posting a source. I could say there are more men raped in the US than women thanks to the rape culture of the prison system but it would be arguable. So we need a source for this.
If she woke up the next day and regretted it, wouldn't she just want to forget it?
In a word, no.
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Re: Ched Evans (Convicted Rapist) trains with Sheffield Unit

2 years ago

Sponsors threats. Jessica Ennis-Hill getting involved. Stick a form in him, he's done
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