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Sunday 17th December 2017, KO 14:15 UTC.
daib0
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Catalan Uprising

Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm

My saddest day ever, living in Spain. Here's a quick general explanation from my part.

Catalunya has 16.7% of the total Spanish population - and several million more than Scotland - big, but of course it will never ever have a majority of the MPs on Spanish soil. But Madrid says this independence vote is against the law. It has to be done from Madrid. Up to here good. But where it goes off-course is that any change has to be voted for by ALL Spanish people and not just those from Catalonia. Impossible to go ahead then. Why? Because although Catalunya has 16.7% of the population it produces OVER one-quarter of the wealth of Spain. Politicians and people of other regions are only interested in the economy, we all know that, so they'll NEVER allow a vote like Scotland.

What has really inspired this recent uprising in nationalism is that the Catalans voted for an amplification of autonomy status - and perfectly legally, approved by Madrid! - in 2010. It was widely approved by the regional population. But the PP (right-wing) party got worried that they might now get too much regional power, and went to the high Constitutional Court to get it overturned. And did so. Because the Spanish jurisdiction is very much politically influenced. THAT is what really started to fuel the big independence drive - people thought "if we get no respect for our views and legally binding vote, we might as well go it alone".

Back 10-15 years ago you'd find independence sentiments at about 17-20%. Now it's somewhere between 42 and 58%, depending on which parties they include in the equation. But it's growing VERY fast, 90% of youngsters voting first time want Catalonia as an independent country.

So Mr. Mariano Rajoy has one hell of a problem tonight. This is not going to go away ... far from it.

Scenes like this are truly shocking, towards pacific people - and there are DOZENS of videos now coming out of this type:





Makes me ASHAMED to have gained dual nationality

David


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Relly
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:42 pm

Good post, sort of boiled it down to simple terms, which is helpful because I didn't know the full story.

It's sort of a tough issue. We had a similar situation here in Canada were Quebec wanted to seperate from Canada. Quebec is a resource rich area of the country, which they would obviously would take with them. Although Quebec is basically a socialist state within Canada that drains the rest of the countries money. Their vote failed by around 1% if I remember correctly, but it was just them that voted. In all honesty if the whole country voted they probably would have been voted out, no one really likes them.

I can see both sides of the Spain arguement, and obviously Spain's political history is much different than Canada's. I don't blame the rest of Spain for not agreeing to allow such a large aspect of their economy walk away, but their importance to Spain should be more appreciated. Tough situation and I am not sure their is an easy solution.

Is there the possibility of this turning into a civil war type situation?
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daib0
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:56 pm

Relly wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:42 pm
Good post, sort of boiled it down to simple terms, which is helpful because I didn't know the full story.

It's sort of a tough issue. We had a similar situation here in Canada were Quebec wanted to seperate from Canada. Quebec is a resource rich area of the country, which they would obviously would take with them. Although Quebec is basically a socialist state within Canada that drains the rest of the countries money. Their vote failed by around 1% if I remember correctly, but it was just them that voted. In all honesty if the whole country voted they probably would have been voted out, no one really likes them.

I can see both sides of the Spain arguement, and obviously Spain's political history is much different than Canada's. I don't blame the rest of Spain for not agreeing to allow such a large aspect of their economy walk away, but their importance to Spain should be more appreciated. Tough situation and I am not sure their is an easy solution.

Is there the possibility of this turning into a civil war type situation?
also a good post!
I wouldn't think it'd get to a civil war situation, but then I never dreamed it would have got to like at this weekend either.

Could one get this unkindly government out of power?

I'd say that PM Rajoy really only rules with the centre-right party Ciudadanos, but it's a wafer thin number to do deals on. Strange that Ciudadanos (C's for short) put their reputation on being an anti-corruption party then team up with the most corrupt Spanish party of the whole recent democratic period in Spain. Yep, Spain is different!!!

Also, I have to say that I've always been pro-Europe EU ... up to now. But I am starting to re-evaluate. Now you see Poland getting its stick from the EU big-time for not taking enough refugees, but when the Catalans are really getting stick PHYSICALLY in the street as life-long CATALANS the EU seems to be doing nothing except turn a blind eye and say "be good boys". Worrying tendencies..

I've not got any magic wand on this, but am following things all day long. My wife is Catalan...
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:16 pm

Absolutely shocking over-reaction by Madrid! Police brutality on peaceful law-abiding citizens.

I think I should remind peoplethat Spain has only been a democracy for a few decades - the shadow of Franco hangs like a pall over this tragedy!
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