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RED3bution
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Re: Politics thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:16 pm

Relly wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:48 pm
Dante wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:07 pm
You can't apply for asylum in the United States, unless you are actually in the United States. See here.
To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States.
There is no visa to enter the US to apply for asylum. So actually, crossing the Rio Grande into the middle of the US, go to a border, find a border guard and say, I need asylum is the process.
But we both no they aren't doing that, and that's because they aren't really asylum seekers, they are economic migrants. And yes, you show up at a legal point of entry and tell the border guard. Have you crossed into the US via an official border crossing? I have, literally hundreds of times, and when you get to the point of talking to an American border guard you are already in the US territory.
Having crossed the US border hundreds of times as you claim then perhaps you would be able to tell after you reread what you said above that you're speculating on the intentions of the asylum seekers. It is not the job of the border patrol to investigate the merits of asylum applications, so your point about why these border-crossers come are irrelevant at the point of application. If you must insist on the law then the US government should also honor existing immigration law and or policy.


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Re: Politics thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:22 pm

RED3bution wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:16 pm
Relly wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:48 pm
Dante wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:07 pm
You can't apply for asylum in the United States, unless you are actually in the United States. See here.



There is no visa to enter the US to apply for asylum. So actually, crossing the Rio Grande into the middle of the US, go to a border, find a border guard and say, I need asylum is the process.
But we both no they aren't doing that, and that's because they aren't really asylum seekers, they are economic migrants. And yes, you show up at a legal point of entry and tell the border guard. Have you crossed into the US via an official border crossing? I have, literally hundreds of times, and when you get to the point of talking to an American border guard you are already in the US territory.
Having crossed the US border hundreds of times as you claim then perhaps you would be able to tell after you reread what you said above that you're speculating on the intentions of the asylum seekers. It is not the job of the border patrol to investigate the merits of asylum applications, so your point about why these border-crossers come are irrelevant at the point of application. If you must insist on the law then the US government should also honor existing immigration law and or policy.
None of what you just said made sense. The border agent doesn't investigate, the asylum seeker is supposed to state their claim and the border guard will direct them through the proper channels. You think the border on the spot makes the judgement? Then calls his buddy to see if he can house this family of Guatamalens?

And I am not at all making assumptions. If their intent is genuine asylum then the would do the proper thing, but since they know they are most likely to be turfed back to whatever country they came from they sneak in through the back door.


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Re: Politics thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:24 pm

Where was all the phony outrage when Obama was in charge? This is a coordinated effort to hurt Trump going into the primaries, the media are pathetic, which is why no one trusts them anymore.


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Re: Politics thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:41 pm

Relly wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:22 pm
RED3bution wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:16 pm
Relly wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:48 pm


But we both no they aren't doing that, and that's because they aren't really asylum seekers, they are economic migrants. And yes, you show up at a legal point of entry and tell the border guard. Have you crossed into the US via an official border crossing? I have, literally hundreds of times, and when you get to the point of talking to an American border guard you are already in the US territory.
Having crossed the US border hundreds of times as you claim then perhaps you would be able to tell after you reread what you said above that you're speculating on the intentions of the asylum seekers. It is not the job of the border patrol to investigate the merits of asylum applications, so your point about why these border-crossers come are irrelevant at the point of application. If you must insist on the law then the US government should also honor existing immigration law and or policy.
None of what you just said made sense. The border agent doesn't investigate, the asylum seeker is supposed to state their claim and the border guard will direct them through the proper channels. You think the border on the spot makes the judgement? Then calls his buddy to see if he can house this family of Guatamalens?

And I am not at all making assumptions. If their intent is genuine asylum then the would do the proper thing, but since they know they are most likely to be turfed back to whatever country they came from they sneak in through the back door.
I have not said anything of the sort to which I assume you're responding to.

The second point is rather stupid as now you've created a situation where there's genuine or ingenuine asylum. It is clear a country cannot accept anyone that claims they seek asylum, so they put standards that need to be met. It doesn't make the rejected applications ingenuine as there are numerous cases that people denied return to their country and come to some injury or death even. So bite your tongue, not everything looks like one thing through your political lens. The most you can say is that one is rejected asylum status not that it is not genuine.

This back door entry you talk about is a loophole that the existing law provides. If it is the law and must be enforced the way it is written, why should it not be exploited the way it is written?


"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." -The Dark Knight

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Re: Politics thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:58 pm

Relly wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:24 pm
Where was all the phony outrage when Obama was in charge? This is a coordinated effort to hurt Trump going into the primaries, the media are pathetic, which is why no one trusts them anymore.


http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photo ... acilities/
I bet you not. He's being attacked by people with conscience. That's the only co-ordination buddy.....


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Re: Politics thread

Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:48 pm

RED3bution wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:58 pm
Relly wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:24 pm
Where was all the phony outrage when Obama was in charge? This is a coordinated effort to hurt Trump going into the primaries, the media are pathetic, which is why no one trusts them anymore.


http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photo ... acilities/
I bet you not. He's being attacked by people with conscience. That's the only co-ordination buddy.....
possibly, but obviously your criteria eliminates the media and any democrat


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Re: Politics thread

Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:51 pm

Once again Trump cleans up and Obama mess.


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Re: Politics thread

Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:34 am

Relly wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:51 pm
Once again Trump cleans up and Obama mess.
Yes, well done to the kidnapper for releasing the hostages :roll:


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Re: Politics thread

Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:41 am

Relly wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:42 pm
Sandies wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:37 am
I'm trying to work out whether ripping kids from their parents and putting them in cages is more reminiscent of the stolen generation here in Australia, or the concentration camps in Europe
You are such a fool, should have known you would by into this hook line and sinker. This is a law that was put in place in 2008, at the end of Bush's reign, Laura's husband, the one who foolishly decided to criticize something that came in under her husbands watch. It was also a law that came in due to a ruling in the ninth circuit court, the most liberal and biases court in all the US. In case you aren't aware, the democrats use to be all vocally against illegal immigration, you can find video evidence of both Clintons, Chuck Schummer, Nancy Pelosi, etc all making strong anti illegal immigration statements in public.

So the law is in place, has been for years before Trump took charge. The only difference is the law is now being enforced. I think the US has every right to stop people from illegally entering their country, but if people do, the law states the kids can not be kept in the same detention facilities as adults. So the Trump administration has absolutely zero choice here, they enforcing a law they didn't write that they are required to enforce.

Main thing is, don't break the law and you won't be separated from your kids. If you rob a bank or murder someone are they going to put your kids in jail for life with you? And if these people genuinely feel the need to seek asylum in the US, then can do it properly, don't cross the Rio Grande into the middle of the US, go to a border, find a border guard and say, I need asylum. If they do this their kids won't be taken away.

Does anyone not find this coincidental? Trump is killing it right now, the economy is thriving, he had a big win with North Korea, he did with Iran as aswell. His popularity is an all time high, higher than Obama's was at this point of his presidency. The democrats and their partners in the media can't have this so they found this story to latch onto and to use to attack Trump. It's so highly orchestrated it would be disengenious to claim otherwise. It's funny, when this story first came to public attention it was because a couple of celebrities tweeted out a photo of kids behind bars, although they quickly had to backtrack because it turned out to be a photo taken in 2014, when Obama was in charge.
Yes - its the coincidence that this period of time Trump started detaining children.

Trust that it was you that came out and defended detaining children after seperating them from their parents... REGARDLESS of circumstances. So far up the many birth canals ass that yu cant even have an ounce of sympathy.

But I guess understandable coming from considering you have used an analogy where trying to do anything for your kids and trying to give them a better life is akin to murder. Go figure

So what you are saying - that even though this law has been around for ages - it has never actually been implemented until now... No one has actually gone through with this reprehensible act until now. But it's okay to this because its only our law.

Bottom line: The department of justice using prosecutorial discretion created a “zero tolerance” policy that resulted in automatic criminal prosecution of all those crossing the border illegally, including those seeking asylum, and that triggers automatic separation of kids from their parents.

And then chucked them in a cage. Under disgraceful conditions...

"But we were only following orders..." I wonder where we have heard that one in history. Although I guess you answered my original question


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Re: Politics thread

Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:47 pm

Sandies wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:41 am
Relly wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:42 pm
Sandies wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:37 am
I'm trying to work out whether ripping kids from their parents and putting them in cages is more reminiscent of the stolen generation here in Australia, or the concentration camps in Europe
You are such a fool, should have known you would by into this hook line and sinker. This is a law that was put in place in 2008, at the end of Bush's reign, Laura's husband, the one who foolishly decided to criticize something that came in under her husbands watch. It was also a law that came in due to a ruling in the ninth circuit court, the most liberal and biases court in all the US. In case you aren't aware, the democrats use to be all vocally against illegal immigration, you can find video evidence of both Clintons, Chuck Schummer, Nancy Pelosi, etc all making strong anti illegal immigration statements in public.

So the law is in place, has been for years before Trump took charge. The only difference is the law is now being enforced. I think the US has every right to stop people from illegally entering their country, but if people do, the law states the kids can not be kept in the same detention facilities as adults. So the Trump administration has absolutely zero choice here, they enforcing a law they didn't write that they are required to enforce.

Main thing is, don't break the law and you won't be separated from your kids. If you rob a bank or murder someone are they going to put your kids in jail for life with you? And if these people genuinely feel the need to seek asylum in the US, then can do it properly, don't cross the Rio Grande into the middle of the US, go to a border, find a border guard and say, I need asylum. If they do this their kids won't be taken away.

Does anyone not find this coincidental? Trump is killing it right now, the economy is thriving, he had a big win with North Korea, he did with Iran as aswell. His popularity is an all time high, higher than Obama's was at this point of his presidency. The democrats and their partners in the media can't have this so they found this story to latch onto and to use to attack Trump. It's so highly orchestrated it would be disengenious to claim otherwise. It's funny, when this story first came to public attention it was because a couple of celebrities tweeted out a photo of kids behind bars, although they quickly had to backtrack because it turned out to be a photo taken in 2014, when Obama was in charge.
Yes - its the coincidence that this period of time Trump started detaining children.

Trust that it was you that came out and defended detaining children after seperating them from their parents... REGARDLESS of circumstances. So far up the many birth canals ass that yu cant even have an ounce of sympathy.

But I guess understandable coming from considering you have used an analogy where trying to do anything for your kids and trying to give them a better life is akin to murder. Go figure

So what you are saying - that even though this law has been around for ages - it has never actually been implemented until now... No one has actually gone through with this reprehensible act until now. But it's okay to this because its only our law.

Bottom line: The department of justice using prosecutorial discretion created a “zero tolerance” policy that resulted in automatic criminal prosecution of all those crossing the border illegally, including those seeking asylum, and that triggers automatic separation of kids from their parents.

And then chucked them in a cage. Under disgraceful conditions...

"But we were only following orders..." I wonder where we have heard that one in history. Although I guess you answered my original question
Did you look at that link I posted? Where was your outrage then? Obama put kids in cages, this started under him. You (and all the other stupid sheep) only care about this now because you think this is something you can hit Trump with.

I do not think saving your kids is akin to murder, but stay home and try to improve your country, or go through the proper channels to get out and save them that way. I actually differ with Trump on this situation. I don't agree with him circumventing a law that was put in place for a good reason, I think bypassing this law will put a lot more children at risk. And get this through your head, crossing in the middle of the country is not seeking asylum, there is a process for that. You have skipped over a lot of facts to state your opinion here.

My solution to the border situation, put armed guards in towers along the border and start picking off people that come across where they aren't supposed to. Obviously not children because they don't have a say in it, but after a few people start going down then the rest will start to think twice about doing the same thing. Sorry, I am not a sympathetic person, and I don't think American taxpayers have an obligation to save everyone in the world at the expense of providing a quality life to themselves and their families.


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Re: Politics thread

Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:58 pm

@Relly I didn't know you were an American taxpayer.

First things, Obama tried the policy but had to stop it himself. Later resorted to "catch and release". Trump should have learnt from this but of course, if Obama walks away from a burning house, Trump will elect to walk right into it. Such is his anti-Obama policy of policy-making.

Now I know this takes us back to you crossing the border hundreds of times, but I am not sure which border but do you know that it is US Immigration policy, not to take into account the immigration status of asylum seekers and for sure how they entered the country?
So it kind of renders moot (again) your point about a proper way to seek asylum. Maybe you should stop that false claim.


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Re: Politics thread

Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:34 pm

RED3bution wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:58 pm
@Relly I didn't know you were an American taxpayer.

First things, Obama tried the policy but had to stop it himself. Later resorted to "catch and release". Trump should have learnt from this but of course, if Obama walks away from a burning house, Trump will elect to walk right into it. Such is his anti-Obama policy of policy-making.

Now I know this takes us back to you crossing the border hundreds of times, but I am not sure which border but do you know that it is US Immigration policy, not to take into account the immigration status of asylum seekers and for sure how they entered the country?
So it kind of renders moot (again) your point about a proper way to seek asylum. Maybe you should stop that false claim.
Never said I was. Glad you finally admitted with the democrats really want. To catch and release all these illegals into the country. The whacked out dems don't stand a chance of winning any elections in the future unless they continue to import new voters. Glad you finally had the balls to admit what you want, complete disregard for the rule of law.


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Re: Politics thread

Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:50 pm

Relly wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:34 pm
RED3bution wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:58 pm
@Relly I didn't know you were an American taxpayer.

First things, Obama tried the policy but had to stop it himself. Later resorted to "catch and release". Trump should have learnt from this but of course, if Obama walks away from a burning house, Trump will elect to walk right into it. Such is his anti-Obama policy of policy-making.

Now I know this takes us back to you crossing the border hundreds of times, but I am not sure which border but do you know that it is US Immigration policy, not to take into account the immigration status of asylum seekers and for sure how they entered the country?
So it kind of renders moot (again) your point about a proper way to seek asylum. Maybe you should stop that false claim.
Never said I was. Glad you finally admitted with the democrats really want. To catch and release all these illegals into the country. The whacked out dems don't stand a chance of winning any elections in the future unless they continue to import new voters. Glad you finally had the balls to admit what you want, complete disregard for the rule of law.
I admitted what the Obama administration tried and corrected. Do you want to talk about current news events or are you more interested in history? Obama is no longer president.
Catch and release was a go-between, not separating children from parents, respecting the law around asylum seeking (see you were wrong on the proper way to do it) and trying to prosecute the immigrants who illegally cross. Is that ok for you?
US immigration law needs some overhaul, so don't give me that crap about democrats disregarding the law. It's Fox news on text.


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Re: Politics thread

Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:03 am

“stay home and try to improve your country “

If Only Life were that simple eh? Poor unemployed single mothers with the ability to take down the war against their own government.


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Re: Politics thread

Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:22 pm

Sandies wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:03 am
“stay home and try to improve your country “

If Only Life were that simple eh? Poor unemployed single mothers with the ability to take down the war against their own government.
Life can suck, but why is it the responsibility of Joe Blow who works 30 hours a week at Home Depot in Detroit Michigan who can barely afford to feed his to save said immigrant woman?

If all the good people keep living these countries then how can you ever expect them to improve?


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Re: Politics thread

Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:23 pm



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Re: Politics thread

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:09 pm

Relly wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:22 pm
Sandies wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:03 am
“stay home and try to improve your country “

If Only Life were that simple eh? Poor unemployed single mothers with the ability to take down the war against their own government.
Life can suck, but why is it the responsibility of Joe Blow who works 30 hours a week at Home Depot in Detroit Michigan who can barely afford to feed his to save said immigrant woman?

If all the good people keep living these countries then how can you ever expect them to improve?
There's always one thing you post that proves this whole thing is one big wind up


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Re: Politics thread

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:35 am

Sandies wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:09 pm
Relly wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:22 pm
Sandies wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:03 am
“stay home and try to improve your country “

If Only Life were that simple eh? Poor unemployed single mothers with the ability to take down the war against their own government.
Life can suck, but why is it the responsibility of Joe Blow who works 30 hours a week at Home Depot in Detroit Michigan who can barely afford to feed his to save said immigrant woman?

If all the good people keep living these countries then how can you ever expect them to improve?
There's always one thing you post that proves this whole thing is one big wind up
Seems like you don't have an intelligent rebuttle to my statements so you chose to deflect instead. You seem very experienced in losing a factual debate.


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Re: Politics thread

Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:45 am

Relly wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:35 am
Sandies wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:09 pm
Relly wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:22 pm


Life can suck, but why is it the responsibility of Joe Blow who works 30 hours a week at Home Depot in Detroit Michigan who can barely afford to feed his to save said immigrant woman?

If all the good people keep living these countries then how can you ever expect them to improve?
There's always one thing you post that proves this whole thing is one big wind up
Seems like you don't have an intelligent rebuttle to my statements so you chose to deflect instead. You seem very experienced in losing a factual debate.
I have pointed out every single time you have done this, and that is where every argument ends.

Im sorry that I simply just cant argue against innocent Syrian civilians not staying to fight their government against genocide.

Those god damn jews in the 1930's couldn't fight the Nazis. Absolute scumbags trying to flee and seek refuse in any country willing to help

I guess youre right - you never know what could happen to these immigrants that come in and declare intention to live in the states. Their son might come in and become president of the USA. Who will then go in and surpress every report that presents the benefits of immigration and refugees.

How lucky you were they let you in (Y)


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Re: Politics thread

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:43 pm

Still haven't answered why it's the duty of Joe Blow American that can barely afford to feed his own kid to save the world.

You sound like a real fornicate hero, at least that's how you present yourself on the internet, I assume you have some refugee families living with you and that you voluntarily pay more income tax so your government can use it for humanitarian purposes. C'mon hero, don't be so modest, tell us all the good things you're doing.


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Re: Politics thread

Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:40 pm

Relly wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:43 pm
Still haven't answered why it's the duty of Joe Blow American that can barely afford to feed his own kid to save the world.

You sound like a real fornicate hero, at least that's how you present yourself on the internet, I assume you have some refugee families living with you and that you voluntarily pay more income tax so your government can use it for humanitarian purposes. C'mon hero, don't be so modest, tell us all the good things you're doing.
Lol....Who's Joe Blow? Joe the Plumber?

Your second line response is so personal I have to think you're rattled. All he's saying is that good government is compassionate. If every law were to be executed to the letter you would not like the coldness of society....it is not so much punitive as it is a guide to know what is right and wrong according to society. When somebody insists on breaking society's law as a matter of necessity and non-violently, then maybe that law needs another look. My personal opinion.

You can argue that the system is not working very well for the average American. You're right that immigration could strangle the average American worker (cheaper wages), but I think it is more likely to create an environment that is advantageous to the American worker if they are willing to upgrade their skills. This is about what the US economy needs from its citizens not a government mandate. The uneducated immigrant has no choice but to take up menial jobs or you could say, work their way up from a rung lower than the American worker, and as they climb they too become more American.
There is an inherent problem with capitalism. It creates losers unnfortunately, due to the lobbying power of the rich (the winners) and how much they want to keep on winning (read greed). This will continue to be the case until some form of moderation is incoorporated into the system such as government regulation or economic package designed for the middle class. I am sure you have your ideas but looking to stop immigration is one thing but I think it's like trying to pick up crumbs with the whole pie still on the table. You might get a taste of the pie but if you want a satisfactory fill you must get to that table one way or the other, by your own individual brilliance or by a collective bargain.


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Re: Politics thread

Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:01 pm

RED3bution wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:40 pm
Relly wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:43 pm
Still haven't answered why it's the duty of Joe Blow American that can barely afford to feed his own kid to save the world.

You sound like a real fornicate hero, at least that's how you present yourself on the internet, I assume you have some refugee families living with you and that you voluntarily pay more income tax so your government can use it for humanitarian purposes. C'mon hero, don't be so modest, tell us all the good things you're doing.
Lol....Who's Joe Blow? Joe the Plumber?

Your second line response is so personal I have to think you're rattled. All he's saying is that good government is compassionate. If every law were to be executed to the letter you would not like the coldness of society....it is not so much punitive as it is a guide to know what is right and wrong according to society. When somebody insists on breaking society's law as a matter of necessity and non-violently, then maybe that law needs another look. My personal opinion.

You can argue that the system is not working very well for the average American. You're right that immigration could strangle the average American worker (cheaper wages), but I think it is more likely to create an environment that is advantageous to the American worker if they are willing to upgrade their skills. This is about what the US economy needs from its citizens not a government mandate. The uneducated immigrant has no choice but to take up menial jobs or you could say, work their way up from a rung lower than the American worker, and as they climb they too become more American.
There is an inherent problem with capitalism. It creates losers unnfortunately, due to the lobbying power of the rich (the winners) and how much they want to keep on winning (read greed). This will continue to be the case until some form of moderation is incoorporated into the system such as government regulation or economic package designed for the middle class. I am sure you have your ideas but looking to stop immigration is one thing but I think it's like trying to pick up crumbs with the whole pie still on the table. You might get a taste of the pie but if you want a satisfactory fill you must get to that table one way or the other, by your own individual brilliance or by a collective bargain.
Joe Blow is a large portion of Americans, could be anyone.

My second line was born out of frustration from the intellectual dishonesty of Sandies. He ignores a lot of facts I put in front of him to keep pushing his baseless agenda.

First of all, very few people are complaining about immigration in general, most people realize it's necessary to grow a country. What people are arguing about is illegal immigration, however you lefties have a hard time distinguishing them. You know who doesn't like illegal immigration? Legal immigrants, they are some of the biggest critics because they know what they went through to get to the US, so to watch someone sneak in the back door is very frustrating.

And I'm sorry but I 100% disagree that these illegal immigrants are advantageous to Americans. Those people take low skill jobs and accept next to nothing for pay because they aren't in a position to complain. If they weren't there than they would be forced to hire Americans who are out of work, who wouldn't accept those extremely low wages, companies would be forced to pay more for these "low wage" jobs or risk not employee anyone. Then instead of wages being driven down, they are raised up, simple supply and demand.

And capitalism isn't perfect, no system is, but it's pretty fornicate close. Capitalism has raised more people, by far, really far, out of poverty then any other system that's been employed throughout the history of mankind. Even your poor westerners today have big screen tvs, cars, air conditioning and cell phones. Your officially poor people of society have more and live better than most people throughout history.

And sorry, some people just are losers, and if there is no motivation to improve what do you expect from them? Do you really think said loser will become a more productive member of society if you start giving him everything he failed to achieve on his own?


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Re: Politics thread

Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:53 pm

Relly wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:01 pm
RED3bution wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:40 pm
Relly wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:43 pm
Still haven't answered why it's the duty of Joe Blow American that can barely afford to feed his own kid to save the world.

You sound like a real fornicate hero, at least that's how you present yourself on the internet, I assume you have some refugee families living with you and that you voluntarily pay more income tax so your government can use it for humanitarian purposes. C'mon hero, don't be so modest, tell us all the good things you're doing.
Lol....Who's Joe Blow? Joe the Plumber?

Your second line response is so personal I have to think you're rattled. All he's saying is that good government is compassionate. If every law were to be executed to the letter you would not like the coldness of society....it is not so much punitive as it is a guide to know what is right and wrong according to society. When somebody insists on breaking society's law as a matter of necessity and non-violently, then maybe that law needs another look. My personal opinion.

You can argue that the system is not working very well for the average American. You're right that immigration could strangle the average American worker (cheaper wages), but I think it is more likely to create an environment that is advantageous to the American worker if they are willing to upgrade their skills. This is about what the US economy needs from its citizens not a government mandate. The uneducated immigrant has no choice but to take up menial jobs or you could say, work their way up from a rung lower than the American worker, and as they climb they too become more American.
There is an inherent problem with capitalism. It creates losers unnfortunately, due to the lobbying power of the rich (the winners) and how much they want to keep on winning (read greed). This will continue to be the case until some form of moderation is incoorporated into the system such as government regulation or economic package designed for the middle class. I am sure you have your ideas but looking to stop immigration is one thing but I think it's like trying to pick up crumbs with the whole pie still on the table. You might get a taste of the pie but if you want a satisfactory fill you must get to that table one way or the other, by your own individual brilliance or by a collective bargain.
Joe Blow is a large portion of Americans, could be anyone.

My second line was born out of frustration from the intellectual dishonesty of Sandies. He ignores a lot of facts I put in front of him to keep pushing his baseless agenda.

First of all, very few people are complaining about immigration in general, most people realize it's necessary to grow a country. What people are arguing about is illegal immigration, however you lefties have a hard time distinguishing them. You know who doesn't like illegal immigration? Legal immigrants, they are some of the biggest critics because they know what they went through to get to the US, so to watch someone sneak in the back door is very frustrating.
Dunno who you refer to as lefty. It is true that illegal immigration is problematic and I have not made any argument supporting it. Not everything can be treated with equality. Again if people are prepared to risk death to come across the border, then I don't think its enough to shut your door and let them die or shoot them from an observation post. If you saw an illegal immigrant dying of thirst, would you offer a drink and probably indirectly aid his quest or just seal his fate by abandoning and blaming him for such a dangerous journey? The solution is complex but getting worse and a solution needs to be worked out sooner than later.
And I'm sorry but I 100% disagree that these illegal immigrants are advantageous to Americans. Those people take low skill jobs and accept next to nothing for pay because they aren't in a position to complain. If they weren't there than they would be forced to hire Americans who are out of work, who wouldn't accept those extremely low wages, companies would be forced to pay more for these "low wage" jobs or risk not employee anyone. Then instead of wages being driven down, they are raised up, simple supply and demand.
This is true in theory, but I will tell you what is more likely to happen in a capitalist environment. There will likely be a slight bump in wages which will be offset by perhaps an even larger bump in prices. It's really about economic law of demand and supply in equilibrium. If workers have higher wages, then demand will naturally rise, and prices go up.
And capitalism isn't perfect, no system is, but it's pretty fornicate close. Capitalism has raised more people, by far, really far, out of poverty then any other system that's been employed throughout the history of mankind. Even your poor westerners today have big screen tvs, cars, air conditioning and cell phones. Your officially poor people of society have more and live better than most people throughout history. I don't know about it being close to perfect. You will hear this because right after the feudal system, the next best economic system that best suited the land owners was capitalism. So it's a different coat on the monkey but arguably not the best in pure practice. Some would say that it is inherently unstable and ultimately must change or destroy itself.
On Capitalism raising more people out of poverty, that is true but tricky, you may also find by implication that it has reduced more people by far into crushing poverty than it has raised out of. Such is its undulating nature.


And sorry, some people just are losers, and if there is no motivation to improve what do you expect from them? Do you really think said loser will become a more productive member of society if you start giving him everything he failed to achieve on his own?No they will not. Unfortunately some people will be that way. But they are not more than the people willing to try and in this way they can be tolerated, if not for any moral purpose but to give sharp contrast to those who are actually succeeding.Recognition sometimes can be had from looking at those who don't have and then seeing how lucky or brilliant you are. And nobody is going to be giving them everything, just the basics. They will not be getting luxury stuff and definitely will remain at the mercy of the whims and caprices of society and their government.


"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." -The Dark Knight

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Re: Politics thread

Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:21 am

Relly wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:01 pm


My second line was born out of frustration from the intellectual dishonesty of Sandies. He ignores a lot of facts I put in front of him to keep pushing his baseless agenda.

I have constantly pointed out the amount of times you have done this..
RED3bution wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:40 pm


Your second line response is so personal I have to think you're rattled.

Relly always gets personal... cries when its the other way though


"Beckham... into Sheringham... and Solskjær has won it!"

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Re: Politics thread

Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:04 pm

Relly wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:43 pm
Still haven't answered why it's the duty of Joe Blow American that can barely afford to feed his own kid to save the world.

You sound like a real fornicate hero, at least that's how you present yourself on the internet, I assume you have some refugee families living with you and that you voluntarily pay more income tax so your government can use it for humanitarian purposes. C'mon hero, don't be so modest, tell us all the good things you're doing.
Honestly what fornicate tripe are you even trying to say here

Good lord has anyone ever spat the fornicate dummy like this on here before

Hero? What the fornicate are you on about


"Beckham... into Sheringham... and Solskjær has won it!"

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