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Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:30 am

This stuff in France toniggt is well on top


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ivandaman
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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:29 am

This stuff in France tonight is just the beginning ... I think.
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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:41 am

It's scary

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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:43 pm

ivandaman wrote:This stuff in France tonight is just the beginning ... I think.
Just the beginning why?

However I do think it's just a matter of time before this happens in England.
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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:57 pm

it already has :?

FWIW this needs to be nipped in the bud right now. I was totally opposed to the invasions o f Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc (war against terror, my arse), however these IS/ISIL/ISIS/dayesh whatever you want to call them are actually a threat to mankind..literally! They have such a warped extremist view of Islam that basically comes down to "you live your life our way or we kill you" which cannot and must not be tolerated.

Sad as it is to even have to use these words, but these lunatics need to be wiped off the face of the planet. I can only think of the Nazis in the last 100 years to which such a term should apply, but what else can you do? YOu cant negotiate with them...you cant threaten them with the (so called) nuclear threat (they have no fear of death and woudl give up their sons and mothers for the 'greater cause'), so what alternative is there?

If ONLY Bush & Blair etc hadnt ruined public opinion on getting involved in the Middle East by their foolish actions over the lsat 15 years or so, there would be at least some appetite for doing what has to be done. There needs to be a global alliance (the West, Russia, China etc) to put aside their differences and focus on this one overriding issue. I fear for all our futures if we dont!
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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:10 pm

I know but I meant again.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516

This petition is to close UK borders and stop all immigration until ISIS are defeated, well over 100k already so will be considered for debate in parliament. It is getting about a hundred signatures every few seconds ffs.
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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:22 pm

#petitionsdontwork :P
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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:40 pm

RedSte wrote:it already has :?

FWIW this needs to be nipped in the bud right now. I was totally opposed to the invasions o f Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc (war against terror, my arse), however these IS/ISIL/ISIS/dayesh whatever you want to call them are actually a threat to mankind..literally! They have such a warped extremist view of Islam that basically comes down to "you live your life our way or we kill you" which cannot and must not be tolerated.

Sad as it is to even have to use these words, but these lunatics need to be wiped off the face of the planet. I can only think of the Nazis in the last 100 years to which such a term should apply, but what else can you do? YOu cant negotiate with them...you cant threaten them with the (so called) nuclear threat (they have no fear of death and woudl give up their sons and mothers for the 'greater cause'), so what alternative is there?

If ONLY Bush & Blair etc hadnt ruined public opinion on getting involved in the Middle East by their foolish actions over the lsat 15 years or so, there would be at least some appetite for doing what has to be done. There needs to be a global alliance (the West, Russia, China etc) to put aside their differences and focus on this one overriding issue. I fear for all our futures if we dont!
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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:46 pm

RedSte wrote:it already has :?

FWIW this needs to be nipped in the bud right now. I was totally opposed to the invasions o f Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc (war against terror, my arse), however these IS/ISIL/ISIS/dayesh whatever you want to call them are actually a threat to mankind..literally! They have such a warped extremist view of Islam that basically comes down to "you live your life our way or we kill you" which cannot and must not be tolerated.

Sad as it is to even have to use these words, but these lunatics need to be wiped off the face of the planet. I can only think of the Nazis in the last 100 years to which such a term should apply, but what else can you do? YOu cant negotiate with them...you cant threaten them with the (so called) nuclear threat (they have no fear of death and woudl give up their sons and mothers for the 'greater cause'), so what alternative is there?

If ONLY Bush & Blair etc hadnt ruined public opinion on getting involved in the Middle East by their foolish actions over the lsat 15 years or so, there would be at least some appetite for doing what has to be done. There needs to be a global alliance (the West, Russia, China etc) to put aside their differences and focus on this one overriding issue. I fear for all our futures if we dont!
I agree 100% with everything you have said here, there will be no rationalizing with this group because their fundamental belief is that their salvation will only come during the final battle with the infidel (anyone that doesn’t believe what they believe). From what I have read they believe that during the final battle when things look to be totally lost the savior will appear and destroy all their enemies leaving only the true believers to start the world anew. In effect they need the final battle with all who do not believe as they do in order to be saved.

My opinion is that they are doing everything possible to drag the world powers into direct conflict with them in an attempt to bring about Armageddon because they believe that's the only way they can win.
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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:02 pm

true. it is really hard to fight against people who are willing to die for their 'so-called faith' and us normal civilians are the easy targets. we just wanted to have a quiet normal life. but ISIS their way of life is they don't care if they get killed as long as they can kill others.

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Re: Terrorism

Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:45 pm

An interesting read:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ISIS-r ... id/625066/

It is astonishing what crimes are committed in the name of religion.
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Re: Terrorism

Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:16 am

ArizonaRed wrote:An interesting read:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ISIS-r ... id/625066/

It is astonishing what crimes are committed in the name of religion.
Not the article I thought it was, to many windows open.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ts/384980/
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Re: Terrorism

Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:09 am

RedSte wrote:it already has :?

FWIW this needs to be nipped in the bud right now. I was totally opposed to the invasions o f Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc (war against terror, my arse), however these IS/ISIL/ISIS/dayesh whatever you want to call them are actually a threat to mankind..literally! They have such a warped extremist view of Islam that basically comes down to "you live your life our way or we kill you" which cannot and must not be tolerated.

Sad as it is to even have to use these words, but these lunatics need to be wiped off the face of the planet. I can only think of the Nazis in the last 100 years to which such a term should apply, but what else can you do? YOu cant negotiate with them...you cant threaten them with the (so called) nuclear threat (they have no fear of death and woudl give up their sons and mothers for the 'greater cause'), so what alternative is there?

If ONLY Bush & Blair etc hadnt ruined public opinion on getting involved in the Middle East by their foolish actions over the lsat 15 years or so, there would be at least some appetite for doing what has to be done. There needs to be a global alliance (the West, Russia, China etc) to put aside their differences and focus on this one overriding issue. I fear for all our futures if we dont!

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Re: Terrorism

Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:00 pm

Me and my Director were talking of exactly that - wipe them out!

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Re: Terrorism

Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:52 pm

those ISIS maniacs should be thrown into a dungeon instead of being financed by the west. Fear is the most powerful human emotion and people that are affraid are much more easlly to manipulate. that's why operation Northwoods was suggested...Kennedy refused, Bush didn't...

''war on terror'' is a perfect war. there's no ending to it, things are constantly evolving.

but hey let's all pretend official stories are correct

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Re: Terrorism

Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:45 pm

ArizonaRed wrote:
ArizonaRed wrote:An interesting read:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ISIS-r ... id/625066/

It is astonishing what crimes are committed in the name of religion.
Not the article I thought it was, to many windows open.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ts/384980/
I read that this afternoon, it was an interesting read.

To summarise; nothing can be done to stop ISIS, the world just has to wait for them to fizzle out. By which point another 'group' will have taken their place. The war on so-called 'terror' is never ending. I am not convinced that bombing is the solution, not unless you can 100% guarantee that there will be no innocent deaths. For example, how many civilians, with absolutely fornicate all to do with the Paris attacks, will have been killed by last nights air strikes? It's a never ending cycle. Violence breeds violence.

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Re: Terrorism

Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:15 pm

The airstrikes last night weren't carpet bombing. So not sure about civilian deaths in Raqqa
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Re: Terrorism

Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:09 pm

Just seen that apparently there were no civilian deaths last night, but that isn't always so. Plenty of innocent civilians have been killed in this so-called war on terror.

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Re: Terrorism

Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:05 pm

mikey wrote:Just seen that apparently there were no civilian deaths last night, but that isn't always so. Plenty of innocent civilians have been killed in this so-called war on terror.
I disagree with your summary that nothing can be done to stop ISIS, on the contrary I believe everything need to be done to stop them. They are a cancer and the longer they are allowed to go unchecked the more damage will be done when action against them is finally taken. I have few doubts that once ISIS is wipe off the face of the earth another radical group, more barbaric and callous than ISIS, will step forward to take their place, that appears to be the way of things these days. However that doesn’t mean that we rolling over and taking no action is the answer, this would just increase their sphere of influence and encourage them to continue their strategy of terror. This is not the first group of psychopathic madmen that civilization has had to deal with, nor unfortunately will they be the last. As a society we have rules and wanton, brutal and indiscriminate killing are never part of that society and therefore cannot be allowed to go unpunished.

Both strategic and saturation bombing are tools that need to used in this war. The info structure that allows ISIS to exist (oil revenues, weapons dumps, command and control centers etc) needs to be saturation bombed; any congregation of troops or armament should be taken out with hasted in the same manor. Strategic bombings and Special Forces raids should be used to remove the leaders any time they crawl out from under the rocks.

Will there be civilian casualties? Yes there will be, especially if ISIS leaders continue to place their facilities in the middle of cities and towns to use their civilian population as shields. Offering guarantees that there will be no innocent deaths is nonsensical, if you could go and ask the tourists who were massacred on a beach in Tunisia, or the victims of the Paris attacks or the Russians whose only crime was boarding a plane to get home from their holiday, if guarantees would have done them any good. I would like to believe that the average person in ISIS held territories does not condone the tactics being employed by their leaders, but that is not what I have read on the subject. Instead the average person supports the leadership and its goals because they believe that is the only way to achieve paradise on earth.

Bombings and raids will only work if the supply of money and weapons into ISIS can be stopped and that should be the other front on which this war is fought. Make no mistake about it this is a war. Civilization as we know it and ISIS cannot co-exist, there is no common ground or negotiation with ISIS, either they cease to exist or civilization as we know it does. Track down the money and stop it at the source, without money ISIS will not be able to hold onto the land it has and without land there is no Islamic State.
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Re: Terrorism

Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:26 pm

You need to get America's best buddy Saudi Arabia to stop funding them first and foremost.
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Re: Terrorism

Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:12 pm

The Saudi's (Sunni) and Iran (Shia) have been financing conflict in the gulf since at least 1980 Iran-Iraq war to further their own ends. It may be my biases showing but I believe that no one in that part of the world has "best buddy's", at best they are business relationships and those can change in a heartbeat.

Regardless of where the money is coming from it needs to be identified and stopped.
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Re: Terrorism

Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:15 pm

You can't bomb a concept. If you take out loads of ISIS members in the Middle East there's still no guarantee that they won't just spring up somewhere else, or in some new guise. Or that bombing them won't anger someone somewhere to take revenge on the countries doing the bombing, or more likely the innocent citizens of those countries.

Security services should be tracking down who is supplying them financial aid, who's selling them guns, who's paying them as mercenaries, who is using them as proxy armies - against who and for what reasons... which of course could or probably does involve us or the CIA or the Saudi Arabians or the Russians covertly using ISIS and other terrorists for mysterious real politik reasons. And that's ignoring local rivalries, religious disputes, historical grudges, the drugs trade, the arms trade, the people traffickers...

I reckon despite the press lots of ISIS and their spin off's are made up of professional nutters for hire rather than simply everyday Muslims 'radicalised' by some mysterious process of Islamist osmosis. You don't just flip from mild mannered bank clerk to suicide bomber and would-be beheader overnight. Although ISIS do use amphetemine substitute to get themselves in the right frame of mind to lop someone's head off (I forget the name of the drug).

But who the fornicate knows, it's all so murky and complicated, which is why simplistic Daily Mail headlines calling for us to 'bomb the bastards' or close borders are useless and idiotic. If the problem was so simple the average Mail reader could see the solution it would have been solved years ago.

Of course finding all that out is not easy, formulating a strategy against it even more difficult and when/if they do work all that out then there's the possibility that the situation simply changes again, rendering it all pointless. Realistically we'll probably be chasing our tails for years to come trying to contain the problem, and then dealing with the next lot of crazies and their splinter groups. Cameron's trademark 'concerned Dave' face and empty blathering might not be what we need to solve this situation.

Just closing some borders and getting irate about 'immigrants' won't solve anything, which is a shame because that would be a lot easier.

I'm speculating obviously, from what I've seen/read, you'd have to have some kind of Top Security clearance to know the real truth, and I suspect even then you wouldn't get a full picture.

In short: good luck sorting out this mess
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Re: Terrorism

Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:40 am

Dante wrote:You can't bomb a concept. If you take out loads of ISIS members in the Middle East there's still no guarantee that they won't just spring up somewhere else, or in some new guise. Or that bombing them won't anger someone somewhere to take revenge on the countries doing the bombing, or more likely the innocent citizens of those countries.

Security services should be tracking down who is supplying them financial aid, who's selling them guns, who's paying them as mercenaries, who is using them as proxy armies - against who and for what reasons... which of course could or probably does involve us or the CIA or the Saudi Arabians or the Russians covertly using ISIS and other terrorists for mysterious real politik reasons. And that's ignoring local rivalries, religious disputes, historical grudges, the drugs trade, the arms trade, the people traffickers...

I reckon despite the press lots of ISIS and their spin off's are made up of professional nutters for hire rather than simply everyday Muslims 'radicalised' by some mysterious process of Islamist osmosis. You don't just flip from mild mannered bank clerk to suicide bomber and would-be beheader overnight. Although ISIS do use amphetemine substitute to get themselves in the right frame of mind to lop someone's head off (I forget the name of the drug).

But who the fornicate knows, it's all so murky and complicated, which is why simplistic Daily Mail headlines calling for us to 'bomb the bastards' or close borders are useless and idiotic. If the problem was so simple the average Mail reader could see the solution it would have been solved years ago.

Of course finding all that out is not easy, formulating a strategy against it even more difficult and when/if they do work all that out then there's the possibility that the situation simply changes again, rendering it all pointless. Realistically we'll probably be chasing our tails for years to come trying to contain the problem, and then dealing with the next lot of crazies and their splinter groups. Cameron's trademark 'concerned Dave' face and empty blathering might not be what we need to solve this situation.

Just closing some borders and getting irate about 'immigrants' won't solve anything, which is a shame because that would be a lot easier.

I'm speculating obviously, from what I've seen/read, you'd have to have some kind of Top Security clearance to know the real truth, and I suspect even then you wouldn't get a full picture.

In short: good luck sorting out this mess
You can't bomb a concept. If you take out loads of ISIS members in the Middle East there's still no guarantee that they won't just spring up somewhere else, or in some new guise. Or that bombing them won't anger someone somewhere to take revenge on the countries doing the bombing, or more likely the innocent citizens of those countries.
(Y)

People like Donald Trump over simplifly the situation by saying he'll bomb the shit our of them and take over their oil. Bombing will hurt them but will not destroy them. It will feel good though, seeing those bastards getting bomb.

It is almost guarantee that another group will spin off. Religious nutters like this is not going anywhere.
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Terrorism

Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:32 am

Agree Dante. There would be a new group rising from ISIS. Plus the fact there are innocent lives that are lost on those bomb areas. These so called ISIS would still get their revenge thru their kids, relatives, friends, etc. it won't end.

Those group leaders and who really funded them must be stop. Killing the bombers alone won't resolve this issue. It is hard, yes but it is the long term goal.

Everybody reacted about pray for Paris etc. but there are governments that seem to forget there are war over Palestine-Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. that not every leaders won't try to inform their own nation about how those people are currently living. It is sometimes double standard, maybe off topic but that is why hate is generated since there are nations who just isn't fair to certain nations. Which mostly becoming Christians/other religion against Muslim nations.

It is really sad to see these type of things and we as a normal person, our emotions are really high but we need to think both sides I know they are radical/ extremists and maybe brainwashed, but violence isn't really the key for us normal people.

The presidents of the US, UK, EU etc would justify the means to increase budget for war. Recruiting young people for soldiers and just send them to places which could risk their lives.

I hope that these leaders just get into a ring and box each other out Obama against an ISIS leader.
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Re: Terrorism

Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:17 am

The "peaceful religion" strikes again. This time in California.

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