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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:33 am

"I know words, I have the best words" :laugh:


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:24 pm

Relly wrote:
Mushy peas wrote:
Relly wrote: George Carlin was completely right.

That's why I like Trump, he isn't part of the establishment. People will mock my support of Trump and then reveal themselves as a supporter of Bush or Rubio or Hilary on the other side. If you support these establishment candidates then all you are is an uneducated, blinded pawn to the people who run that country. The Bushes and Clintons are good friends, predating any of them being in Federal politics, and they are part of the group that has been destroying the US for decades. I can't imagine anyone seeing the direction the country is going and saying that the want to vote the candidate that keeps them on that track. Even if your not Republican, take a look at Bernie Sanders. And watch out because Hilary is stealing the candidacy from him right in front of people and no one even notices or cares.
Trump has zero ideology and has no basis to back up anything he says. He is running as an ego trip and will say anything to keep his numbers up. He is clearly extremely intelligent. This is evident from the fact that he is tapping into a lot of peoples basest fears and spouting a lot of empty rhetoric which is having exactly the desired effect. Rubio and Cruz showed him up at the last debate however. He can not substantiate his claims that Mexico will pay for his wall nor could he defend claims that he gave away American jobs . Nothing from what I have seen shows Trump to be a "tells it how he sees it" candidate. What gives him that illusion is that hes running on his own money and so can insult who he likes without caring who he offends.

It's also unfair to compare Trump to Sanders. Whether you like his policies or not Sanders does seem to be basing his campaign on an actual ideology and has evidently been consistent throughout his career on this.

If you want a right leaning anti-establishment politician to get behind then why not Cruz? He has got Duck Dynasty behind him.
Did you watch the last debate? I haven't seen too many people claim Rubio or Cruz won. Rubio showed himself to a be a little slim ball, he came in with all these pre-rehearsed insults and this one fact about Trump hiring some people 35 years ago. The best part was when Rubio mention for about the 30th time that Trump gave jobs to these people and Trump responded, I'm the only one who's giving jobs up here, and I've given 10s of 1000s of jobs to Americans! The crowd went nuts.

One of the things people are most critical of Trump is the immigration issue. If anyone watched the debate you would see between the 3 candidates, (disregard Carson and Kasich, everyone is) Trump actually had the least extreme policy, and the other 2 are latin. Trump said he would deport all the illegals but then give them the opportunity to go through the proper channels to return, thus allowing good, contributing Hispanics to return. Cruz said round them all up and they are never coming back. Rubio said the first day in office he would repeal a bill signed by Obama that grants citizenship to children of illegals, thus breaking up families, sending kids to mexico that don't even know the country. The lady from Telemundo (Mexican TV) who asked kept repeating, but your Latino, why would you do this to your people? But the only real crap people can hit Trump with is these false claims of racism so they ignore the fact he is the softest candidate on this issues and keep falsely calling him a racist.

I don't know if you follow American politics, but Cruz is the real nutjob in this race. He is an tea partier to the max, a overly religious person who bases a lot of his politics on and no one in Washington, most of all his own party likes him. One of the things that Americans are most sick of is that there government doesn't work anymore. Every decision comes down to party lines and opposition parties doing everything they can to stop anything the other is trying to do and therefore nothing gets done. Whats going to get done if the leader is hated by everyone? Either way, its not worth talking about, I'm not sure why Cruz would even waste his time running, he will never get his parties nomination.
I have only watched the last two debates. As well as the last democratic debate. For me everyone's immigration policy lacked substance and no one was pushed on this fact (poor moderation) how on earth is anyone going to round up 11 million illegal immigrants?

I absolutely do not like Cruz, I find him detestable. In fact apart from Bush (rip) and Kasich I cant really stand any of the republican nominees.

However you have failed to address the actual problem with Trump and have just pointed out failings in the other candidates. He has zero substance to anything he says and will say anything to get elected. Please tell me what you think about his wall and how he will get Mexico to pay for it? Or tell me how he will make multi national companies bring their jobs back to the US. It is empty rhetoric which people are (scarily) falling for. How exactly will he "beat" China. Factories moved there because labour was cheap not because of amazing negotiation skills.

You (still not sure if you're on a massive wum) and many others as posing all of this as a false dilemma. Being fed up with the current political system does not mean you have to vote for Trump. The man stands for absolutely nothing but his own interests which may be fine when running a company but if you want him to be the head of state of the US then I think you're slightly mad.

Also, on Trump being a racist. I have no idea whether he is or not but his failure to denounce Duke's endorsement of him showed him up for what he truly is. He is well aware of who Duke is.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:50 pm



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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:03 pm

As for bringing back jobs from China and making Mexico pay for the wall, both of these countries economies rely heavily on selling goods to the US. The US is the largest purchaser of goods from China, by a large amount over second place, which is all of the European Union, China needs the US as much as the US needs China. China doesn't hold all the power like you would think. People think the US has no power in this situation and the country make trade deals that reflect that view, and thus screw the American people. Again Mexico rely heavily on American trade and American tourism. He has pretty much said he would be willing to introduce trade embargos with Mexico. If the US stopped buying Mexican goods and stopped vacationing in Mexico the country would be in real trouble real quick. No actual politician would have the balls to exploit these situations but Trump has made a 10 billion empire on making good deals.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:29 pm

http://www.infowars.com/media-savages-t ... bert-byrd/

The left can be so hypocritical yet the media gives them a free pass... well not so free, they contribute so much to their campaigns they couldn't possibly expose the truth of their candidates.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:43 pm

Watch as the leftist media tries to push their "Trump is a racist, therefore you're a racist if you vote for him" agenda backfire.

https://youtu.be/jcWbpGMzSjc


They guy then tries to recover by mentioning Trump bashing undocumented immigrants, yes people who came to the country illegally, therefore criminals, there should be no shame in bashing criminals. He then mentions Muslims, again can someone please tell me what race that is? Arab muslims? black muslims? or Asian muslims, or white Bosnian muslims?


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:15 pm

Relly wrote:


Further proving the point that he will say anything you wanted to hear, changing his stand all the time.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:17 pm

Relly wrote:http://www.infowars.com/media-savages-t ... bert-byrd/

The left can be so hypocritical yet the media gives them a free pass... well not so free, they contribute so much to their campaigns they couldn't possibly expose the truth of their candidates.

So your only defense of him is "they also did that?". No one said Hillary is a saint, still doesn't change the fact that Trump is a bullshiter.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:56 pm

John Oliver deals in substance. He has to, or the joke doesn't work. You'd do well to actually watch what he has to say, and then try and counter it if you disagree with it.

One of the things he examines is "does Donald Trump tell it like it is"? This is something I'd actually been checking out myself, and the answer is, on the whole, no. If we even allow him to have mostly false statements as being credited as true, he still comes out with false statements 61% of the time.

Carson comes out at 59%, Cruz 39%, Rubio and Kasich at 18%, Sanders 15% and Clinton 14%. You can check this yourself at PolitiFact. Obama, by the way, also stands at 14%.

Ah, that's some lefty conspiracy I can hear someone say. Jeb Bush, who has now dropped out stood at 9%


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:12 pm

marcus leong wrote:
Relly wrote:


Further proving the point that he will say anything you wanted to hear, changing his stand all the time.
There are very few things in life that frustrate me more than people trying to tell other people what their views are. Trump disavowed the endorsement. End of.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:15 pm

marcus leong wrote:
Relly wrote:http://www.infowars.com/media-savages-t ... bert-byrd/

The left can be so hypocritical yet the media gives them a free pass... well not so free, they contribute so much to their campaigns they couldn't possibly expose the truth of their candidates.

So your only defense of him is "they also did that?". No one said Hillary is a saint, still doesn't change the fact that Trump is a bullshiter.
No, I'm showing you this as evidence that the establishment, which owns mainstream media, doesn't want Trump to get elected. So there is this tactic to push the agenda that Trump is racist, he can't help who endorses him, when first questioned he said that he didn't know anything about Duke, he said he would have to look into him and then give an opinion. He did so, then disavowed the endorsement. I am not sure what is wrong with fact checking. On the flipside, here is video evidence of Clinton saying wonderfull things about a guy he said some absolutely horrible things, yet there is no mention whatsoever of this in the mainstream media. Do you not see the double standard? Do you not see whats happening here?


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:22 pm

Dante wrote:John Oliver deals in substance. He has to, or the joke doesn't work. You'd do well to actually watch what he has to say, and then try and counter it if you disagree with it.

One of the things he examines is "does Donald Trump tell it like it is"? This is something I'd actually been checking out myself, and the answer is, on the whole, no. If we even allow him to have mostly false statements as being credited as true, he still comes out with false statements 61% of the time.

Carson comes out at 59%, Cruz 39%, Rubio and Kasich at 18%, Sanders 15% and Clinton 14%. You can check this yourself at PolitiFact. Obama, by the way, also stands at 14%.

Ah, that's some lefty conspiracy I can hear someone say. Jeb Bush, who has now dropped out stood at 9%
There is always a good probability that Trump will say things that aren't completely factually correct, he speaks off the cuff all the time. Do you remember everything you said or did in life with complete accuracy?

And Hilary's percentage may be lower, but no lie told by Donald Trump ever led to the death of American Diplomats. I don't think Hilary can say that. And I don't even want to open the can of worms about the lies she told to protect Bill.

And this site picks and chooses statements to validate, you can't use this as any sort of accurate source because there is no control. They may be cherry picking the statements made that will prop the numbers they want. I will never believe anything that tells me a Clinton is honest 86% of the time or a Bush 91% of the time.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:58 pm

Relly wrote:There is always a good probability that Trump will say things that aren't completely factually correct, he speaks off the cuff all the time. Do you remember everything you said or did in life with complete accuracy?

And Hilary's percentage may be lower, but no lie told by Donald Trump ever led to the death of American Diplomats. I don't think Hilary can say that. And I don't even want to open the can of worms about the lies she told to protect Bill.

And this site picks and chooses statements to validate, you can't use this as any sort of accurate source because there is no control. They may be cherry picking the statements made that will prop the numbers they want. I will never believe anything that tells me a Clinton is honest 86% of the time or a Bush 91% of the time.
Well yes, it's impossible to fact check literally everything some says, let alone everyone on this list. However, they are transparent with their process. An excerpt.
Choosing claims to check

Every day, PolitiFact and PunditFact staffers look for statements that can be checked. We comb through speeches, news stories, press releases, campaign brochures, TV ads, Facebook postings and transcripts of TV and radio interviews. Because we can't possibly check all claims, we select the most newsworthy and significant ones.

In deciding which statements to check, we ask ourselves these questions:

Is the statement rooted in a fact that is verifiable? We don’t check opinions, and we recognize that in the world of speechmaking and political rhetoric, there is license for hyperbole.

Is the statement leaving a particular impression that may be misleading?

Is the statement significant? We avoid minor "gotchas" on claims that obviously represent a slip of the tongue.

Is the statement likely to be passed on and repeated by others?

Would a typical person hear or read the statement and wonder: Is that true?
I've already dealt with Trump speaking off the cuff and saying things that aren't completely factually correct, by classifying those as true. The percentages for all are statements marked as the following:

FALSE – The statement is not accurate.

PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.

Also, just because they are rated as stating a lie a certain percentage of the time, the inverse isn't true that the rest of the claims are true. Clintons True rating is 25% and Bush 18% for example. The rest is somewhere in between.


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Re: RE: Re: US Politics Thread

Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:22 am

Relly wrote:
marcus leong wrote:
Relly wrote:http://www.infowars.com/media-savages-t ... bert-byrd/

The left can be so hypocritical yet the media gives them a free pass... well not so free, they contribute so much to their campaigns they couldn't possibly expose the truth of their candidates.

So your only defense of him is "they also did that?". No one said Hillary is a saint, still doesn't change the fact that Trump is a bullshiter.
No, I'm showing you this as evidence that the establishment, which owns mainstream media, doesn't want Trump to get elected. So there is this tactic to push the agenda that Trump is racist, he can't help who endorses him, when first questioned he said that he didn't know anything about Duke, he said he would have to look into him and then give an opinion. He did so, then disavowed the endorsement. I am not sure what is wrong with fact checking. On the flipside, here is video evidence of Clinton saying wonderfull things about a guy he said some absolutely horrible things, yet there is no mention whatsoever of this in the mainstream media. Do you not see the double standard? Do you not see whats happening here?
Why did you keep going back to that argument?" The establishment do not want Trump to be elected, they want Hillary. That's why trump is good, Hilary is bad."

Just because you think Hilary is as bad as trump, doesn't make trump a better candidate!
Anyway, he said he need to look into who is KKK? fornicate lie, I know who is KKK and I live in Malaysia ffs.


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Re: RE: Re: US Politics Thread

Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:10 am

marcus leong wrote:
Relly wrote:
marcus leong wrote:

So your only defense of him is "they also did that?". No one said Hillary is a saint, still doesn't change the fact that Trump is a bullshiter.
No, I'm showing you this as evidence that the establishment, which owns mainstream media, doesn't want Trump to get elected. So there is this tactic to push the agenda that Trump is racist, he can't help who endorses him, when first questioned he said that he didn't know anything about Duke, he said he would have to look into him and then give an opinion. He did so, then disavowed the endorsement. I am not sure what is wrong with fact checking. On the flipside, here is video evidence of Clinton saying wonderfull things about a guy he said some absolutely horrible things, yet there is no mention whatsoever of this in the mainstream media. Do you not see the double standard? Do you not see whats happening here?
Why did you keep going back to that argument?" The establishment do not want Trump to be elected, they want Hillary. That's why trump is good, Hilary is bad."

Just because you think Hilary is as bad as trump, doesn't make trump a better candidate!
Anyway, he said he need to look into who is KKK? fornicate lie, I know who is KKK and I live in Malaysia ffs.
He said he needed to look into who David Duke was. Immediately following being questioned he posted to Facebook and Twitter that he disavowed the endorsement, immediately after looking into who David Duke was. Banging on about this point just shows you are brainwashed by the media.

Trump is a better candidate because he isn't a politician. Washington has been run by the same group for 30 years and what has happened to the country in that time? Are you honestly telling me, another Clinton, who was part of the Obama administration, who was Bills wife and pseudo president, who was closely tied to the Bush family is the better candidate?


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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: US Politics Thread

Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:43 am

Relly wrote:
marcus leong wrote:
Relly wrote: No, I'm showing you this as evidence that the establishment, which owns mainstream media, doesn't want Trump to get elected. So there is this tactic to push the agenda that Trump is racist, he can't help who endorses him, when first questioned he said that he didn't know anything about Duke, he said he would have to look into him and then give an opinion. He did so, then disavowed the endorsement. I am not sure what is wrong with fact checking. On the flipside, here is video evidence of Clinton saying wonderfull things about a guy he said some absolutely horrible things, yet there is no mention whatsoever of this in the mainstream media. Do you not see the double standard? Do you not see whats happening here?
Why did you keep going back to that argument?" The establishment do not want Trump to be elected, they want Hillary. That's why trump is good, Hilary is bad."

Just because you think Hilary is as bad as trump, doesn't make trump a better candidate!
Anyway, he said he need to look into who is KKK? fornicate lie, I know who is KKK and I live in Malaysia ffs.
He said he needed to look into who David Duke was. Immediately following being questioned he posted to Facebook and Twitter that he disavowed the endorsement, immediately after looking into who David Duke was. Banging on about this point just shows you are brainwashed by the media.

Trump is a better candidate because he isn't a politician. Washington has been run by the same group for 30 years and what has happened to the country in that time? Are you honestly telling me, another Clinton, who was part of the Obama administration, who was Bills wife and pseudo president, who was closely tied to the Bush family is the better candidate?
You are the one that brought this up. Of all the statement by John Oliver you are the one that only pick this point. My point is he do not have a stand on anything at all. He has been changing his opinion based on the interviewer, situation and etc.

No, I don't Hilary is a good choice either.

How about some other points?
1. For someone that self sponsor his campaign. He only contributed 200k+ for his own campaign.

2. The fact that he wanted to kill the terrorist and their family.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:12 pm



You can only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent.

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Re: US Politics Thread

Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:27 am

Brilliant



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Re: US Politics Thread

Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:59 am

Relly wrote:As for bringing back jobs from China and making Mexico pay for the wall, both of these countries economies rely heavily on selling goods to the US. The US is the largest purchaser of goods from China, by a large amount over second place, which is all of the European Union, China needs the US as much as the US needs China. China doesn't hold all the power like you would think. People think the US has no power in this situation and the country make trade deals that reflect that view, and thus screw the American people. Again Mexico rely heavily on American trade and American tourism. He has pretty much said he would be willing to introduce trade embargos with Mexico. If the US stopped buying Mexican goods and stopped vacationing in Mexico the country would be in real trouble real quick. No actual politician would have the balls to exploit these situations but Drumpf has made a 10 billion empire on making good deals.
Drumpf business plan/foreign policy: Be a dick to everyone until you get what you want.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:19 pm

As opposed to the current policy, bend over and watch the world take advantage of you? I'll take Trumps approach every time.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:52 pm

You end up not getting what you want.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:20 pm

Relly wrote:As opposed to the current policy, bend over and watch the world take advantage of you? I'll take Drumpfs approach every time.
America is the most powerful nation in the world. How exactly do other countries "take advantage"?


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Re: US Politics Thread

Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:37 pm

Relly wrote:As opposed to the current policy, bend over and watch the world take advantage of you? I'll take Trumps approach every time.
It's often lamented that the United States bends over and watches the world take advantage of it.


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Re: US Politics Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:31 pm

Anyone seen the latest bitch-fight between Trump & Cruz over their wives... its getting ugly (if you see what I mean!) :P


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Re: US Politics Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:13 am

They have to slag on each other (wives and kids are fair game) because neither can discuss issues or policies without sounding like total morons.


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