Just the beginning why?ivandaman wrote:This stuff in France tonight is just the beginning ... I think.
RedSte wrote:it already has
FWIW this needs to be nipped in the bud right now. I was totally opposed to the invasions o f Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc (war against terror, my arse), however these IS/ISIL/ISIS/dayesh whatever you want to call them are actually a threat to mankind..literally! They have such a warped extremist view of Islam that basically comes down to "you live your life our way or we kill you" which cannot and must not be tolerated.
Sad as it is to even have to use these words, but these lunatics need to be wiped off the face of the planet. I can only think of the Nazis in the last 100 years to which such a term should apply, but what else can you do? YOu cant negotiate with them...you cant threaten them with the (so called) nuclear threat (they have no fear of death and woudl give up their sons and mothers for the 'greater cause'), so what alternative is there?
If ONLY Bush & Blair etc hadnt ruined public opinion on getting involved in the Middle East by their foolish actions over the lsat 15 years or so, there would be at least some appetite for doing what has to be done. There needs to be a global alliance (the West, Russia, China etc) to put aside their differences and focus on this one overriding issue. I fear for all our futures if we dont!
I agree 100% with everything you have said here, there will be no rationalizing with this group because their fundamental belief is that their salvation will only come during the final battle with the infidel (anyone that doesn’t believe what they believe). From what I have read they believe that during the final battle when things look to be totally lost the savior will appear and destroy all their enemies leaving only the true believers to start the world anew. In effect they need the final battle with all who do not believe as they do in order to be saved.RedSte wrote:it already has
FWIW this needs to be nipped in the bud right now. I was totally opposed to the invasions o f Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc (war against terror, my arse), however these IS/ISIL/ISIS/dayesh whatever you want to call them are actually a threat to mankind..literally! They have such a warped extremist view of Islam that basically comes down to "you live your life our way or we kill you" which cannot and must not be tolerated.
Sad as it is to even have to use these words, but these lunatics need to be wiped off the face of the planet. I can only think of the Nazis in the last 100 years to which such a term should apply, but what else can you do? YOu cant negotiate with them...you cant threaten them with the (so called) nuclear threat (they have no fear of death and woudl give up their sons and mothers for the 'greater cause'), so what alternative is there?
If ONLY Bush & Blair etc hadnt ruined public opinion on getting involved in the Middle East by their foolish actions over the lsat 15 years or so, there would be at least some appetite for doing what has to be done. There needs to be a global alliance (the West, Russia, China etc) to put aside their differences and focus on this one overriding issue. I fear for all our futures if we dont!
Not the article I thought it was, to many windows open.ArizonaRed wrote:An interesting read:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ISIS-r ... id/625066/
It is astonishing what crimes are committed in the name of religion.
RedSte wrote:it already has
FWIW this needs to be nipped in the bud right now. I was totally opposed to the invasions o f Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc (war against terror, my arse), however these IS/ISIL/ISIS/dayesh whatever you want to call them are actually a threat to mankind..literally! They have such a warped extremist view of Islam that basically comes down to "you live your life our way or we kill you" which cannot and must not be tolerated.
Sad as it is to even have to use these words, but these lunatics need to be wiped off the face of the planet. I can only think of the Nazis in the last 100 years to which such a term should apply, but what else can you do? YOu cant negotiate with them...you cant threaten them with the (so called) nuclear threat (they have no fear of death and woudl give up their sons and mothers for the 'greater cause'), so what alternative is there?
If ONLY Bush & Blair etc hadnt ruined public opinion on getting involved in the Middle East by their foolish actions over the lsat 15 years or so, there would be at least some appetite for doing what has to be done. There needs to be a global alliance (the West, Russia, China etc) to put aside their differences and focus on this one overriding issue. I fear for all our futures if we dont!
I read that this afternoon, it was an interesting read.ArizonaRed wrote:Not the article I thought it was, to many windows open.ArizonaRed wrote:An interesting read:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ISIS-r ... id/625066/
It is astonishing what crimes are committed in the name of religion.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ts/384980/
I disagree with your summary that nothing can be done to stop ISIS, on the contrary I believe everything need to be done to stop them. They are a cancer and the longer they are allowed to go unchecked the more damage will be done when action against them is finally taken. I have few doubts that once ISIS is wipe off the face of the earth another radical group, more barbaric and callous than ISIS, will step forward to take their place, that appears to be the way of things these days. However that doesn’t mean that we rolling over and taking no action is the answer, this would just increase their sphere of influence and encourage them to continue their strategy of terror. This is not the first group of psychopathic madmen that civilization has had to deal with, nor unfortunately will they be the last. As a society we have rules and wanton, brutal and indiscriminate killing are never part of that society and therefore cannot be allowed to go unpunished.mikey wrote:Just seen that apparently there were no civilian deaths last night, but that isn't always so. Plenty of innocent civilians have been killed in this so-called war on terror.
Dante wrote:You can't bomb a concept. If you take out loads of ISIS members in the Middle East there's still no guarantee that they won't just spring up somewhere else, or in some new guise. Or that bombing them won't anger someone somewhere to take revenge on the countries doing the bombing, or more likely the innocent citizens of those countries.
Security services should be tracking down who is supplying them financial aid, who's selling them guns, who's paying them as mercenaries, who is using them as proxy armies - against who and for what reasons... which of course could or probably does involve us or the CIA or the Saudi Arabians or the Russians covertly using ISIS and other terrorists for mysterious real politik reasons. And that's ignoring local rivalries, religious disputes, historical grudges, the drugs trade, the arms trade, the people traffickers...
I reckon despite the press lots of ISIS and their spin off's are made up of professional nutters for hire rather than simply everyday Muslims 'radicalised' by some mysterious process of Islamist osmosis. You don't just flip from mild mannered bank clerk to suicide bomber and would-be beheader overnight. Although ISIS do use amphetemine substitute to get themselves in the right frame of mind to lop someone's head off (I forget the name of the drug).
But who the fornicate knows, it's all so murky and complicated, which is why simplistic Daily Mail headlines calling for us to 'bomb the bastards' or close borders are useless and idiotic. If the problem was so simple the average Mail reader could see the solution it would have been solved years ago.
Of course finding all that out is not easy, formulating a strategy against it even more difficult and when/if they do work all that out then there's the possibility that the situation simply changes again, rendering it all pointless. Realistically we'll probably be chasing our tails for years to come trying to contain the problem, and then dealing with the next lot of crazies and their splinter groups. Cameron's trademark 'concerned Dave' face and empty blathering might not be what we need to solve this situation.
Just closing some borders and getting irate about 'immigrants' won't solve anything, which is a shame because that would be a lot easier.
I'm speculating obviously, from what I've seen/read, you'd have to have some kind of Top Security clearance to know the real truth, and I suspect even then you wouldn't get a full picture.
In short: good luck sorting out this mess
You can't bomb a concept. If you take out loads of ISIS members in the Middle East there's still no guarantee that they won't just spring up somewhere else, or in some new guise. Or that bombing them won't anger someone somewhere to take revenge on the countries doing the bombing, or more likely the innocent citizens of those countries.
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