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RoddyN
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oh how the mighty are fallen

Thu May 21, 2015 5:11 pm

On this day in 2008 Manchester United beat Chelsea in Moscow to win the Champions League final for the last time

The United team that day was
van der Sar-a world class goalkeeper.The current goalkeeper DDG is also top class however if he goes it's a crock or a kid left

Wes Brown-right back-excellent tackler,hard as nails.Excellent cross for Ronaldo to score the first goal.The current choice is a non tackling,average crossing Valencia or an accident waiting to happen in Rafael.He can't get a game anyway

Rio and Vidic-Possibly the best pairings ever in the Premier league
Now it's Smalling or Evans or Jones if he's fit
Possibly a raw kid not showing much in Blackett or a utily player

Paddy Evra-Left back-A fighter,a great crosser,a winner
Now it's a raw kid that can't stay fit in Shaw
There is no back up that is a natural

Midfield
Scholes,the playmaker.The worlds best ever
Carrick-Lived in his shadow but just as deadly
Hargreaves-The ball winner
Now we have playmakers in Herrara and Mata and we don't have a ballwinner

Ronaldo on the wing-The best ever
Now it's Young

Rooney through the middle at his peak and Tevez to give them no time to settle
Now it's an ageing RVP and/or Falcao who has just never arrived
Possibly Wilson

Players like Giggs couldn't even get a game

Oh the memories

What the fornicate has been allowed to happen to this club when we scramble past Liverpool for a place in a qualifying round only 7 years later



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Ydrah.Tom
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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Thu May 21, 2015 5:17 pm

Fergie.

It's not a pleasant answer, but it's right, he neglected improving the squad in his later seasons. And we are fully feeling the effects of it now.



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RoddyN
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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Thu May 21, 2015 6:40 pm

Ydrah.Tom wrote:Fergie.

It's not a pleasant answer, but it's right, he neglected improving the squad in his later seasons. And we are fully feeling the effects of it now.
as one of the greatest managers of all time do you think there was a reason he neglected improving the squad with the obvious result that it would be,and now has been logged against him

Surely you couldn't suggest he was motivated in some way not to hand a good team over



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Ydrah.Tom
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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Thu May 21, 2015 6:41 pm

RoddyN wrote:
Ydrah.Tom wrote:Fergie.

It's not a pleasant answer, but it's right, he neglected improving the squad in his later seasons. And we are fully feeling the effects of it now.
as one of the greatest managers of all time do you think there was a reason he neglected improving the squad with the obvious result that it would be,and now has been logged against him

Surely you couldn't suggest he was motivated in some way not to hand a good team over
Not at all, I think it was an oversight, not sabotage.

He had faith in some players that were decent, but not too the quality of older sides.



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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Thu May 21, 2015 7:03 pm

So you wouldn't consider that he was paid a percentage not to spend unless it was a player like Bebe or Mame Diouff that were under his families total control as agent(his brother), advisor(his son) and total coaching(himself)
Do you think he thought at any point they might come good as players as opposed to coming good as funders of 2(not one but two) apartments in Central Park,New York



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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Thu May 21, 2015 7:41 pm

You what mate?



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RoddyN
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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Thu May 21, 2015 7:54 pm

Fergie likes horses but isn't much good at gambling
He also likes money which is why he accepts £2m a year to be an ambassador even though he doesn't turn up at unimportant things like the Munich anniversary

There is no subtle way to put this.
He agreed to buy Bebe for £9m even though he hadn't seen him play
His brother Martin Ferguson scouted and recommended him
His Portugese parent club who had not been able give him away for free for a year suddenly felt obliged to tie him up on a long contract.
He appointed Mendes as his agent and was given by Mendes company a personal assistant who happened to be Jason Ferguson
I know it's a bit subtle but hopefully you can see the link

So United buy him for £9m and United who never pay in full,only instalments suddenly got inspired to pay up in full

Shortly afterwards Ferguson bought two apartments in New York overlooking Central Park that all his family now use
The price,i hear you ask?
Funnily enough they were on the market for £9m
Very close to where John Lennon lived
I know the janitor.
He goes drinking in a bar in New York that i frequent

Here it is called a bung to keep quiet
About what i can only speculate and we don't like speculation

You will see the same pattern with Mame Diouf and Toscic
Two other shit players

there are a couple more and for much less but i will leave it at that



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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Thu May 21, 2015 10:55 pm

Definitely Ray. Welcome back.


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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 12:20 am

Ydrah.Tom wrote:You what mate?
Oh yeah, you don't know Ray. You'll soon pick it up mate.

Just to pick up some incorrect points in the Bebe story, it was Estrela, not Vitória de Guimarães who were shopping him around. Reason being they were desperate for cash (They've since folded) and he was their best player. And they weren't offering him for free, it was £125,000.

The person who was offering Bebe for free was his agent. This is because Estrela didn't pay his wages due to their financial woes, meaning he was able to walk away. That's how he ended up at Vitória de Guimarães.

They didn't tie him up on a long contract either, the length of it remained unchanged. What they did do was up his release clause, in exchange paying him a higher wage. This was after a blistering pre-season, so hardly out of nowhere.

Now the rest may of course be totally true, but the above needs to be amended into the story.

Also, Mame Diouf is hardly shit. He's quite plainly a decent striker.


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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 12:25 am

I think I've got it, basically he's a conspiracy nut, with the added joy of being one of those people who ask questions that they want to answer themself, instead of just spitting it out in the first place. Bored.



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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 1:08 am

Ydrah.Tom wrote:I think I've got it, basically he's a conspiracy nut, with the added joy of being one of those people who ask questions that they want to answer themself, instead of just spitting it out in the first place. Bored.
He also knows a lot of people associated with the club, proven by arranging meetings with ex players and members of this board on a few occasions.

Obviously you have to take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt, but I would rather do that then be one of those people who thinks everything in this world is on the straight and narrow and walk around with my head up my ass.


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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 3:31 am

Relly wrote:Definitely Ray. Welcome back.
I have the same thought. Lol

Welcome back Ray. Your timing is a bit off though, we just had a big improvement from last season and all you can think is united had fallen?


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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 7:59 am

Wes Brown as an RB is nothing to shout about... Just saying


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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 10:02 am

Glorio wrote:Wes Brown as an RB is nothing to shout about... Just saying
Apart from THAT semi final.


It's Carrick, you know, hard to believe its not Scholes

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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 1:14 pm

RoddyN wrote:On this day in 2008 Manchester United beat Chelsea in Moscow to win the Champions League final for the last time

The United team that day was
van der Sar-a world class goalkeeper.The current goalkeeper DDG is also top class however if he goes it's a crock or a kid left

Wes Brown-right back-excellent tackler,hard as nails.Excellent cross for Ronaldo to score the first goal.The current choice is a non tackling,average crossing Valencia or an accident waiting to happen in Rafael.He can't get a game anyway

Rio and Vidic-Possibly the best pairings ever in the Premier league
Now it's Smalling or Evans or Jones if he's fit
Possibly a raw kid not showing much in Blackett or a utily player

Paddy Evra-Left back-A fighter,a great crosser,a winner
Now it's a raw kid that can't stay fit in Shaw
There is no back up that is a natural

Midfield
Scholes,the playmaker.The worlds best ever
Carrick-Lived in his shadow but just as deadly
Hargreaves-The ball winner
Now we have playmakers in Herrara and Mata and we don't have a ballwinner

Ronaldo on the wing-The best ever
Now it's Young

Rooney through the middle at his peak and Tevez to give them no time to settle
Now it's an ageing RVP and/or Falcao who has just never arrived
Possibly Wilson

Players like Giggs couldn't even get a game

Oh the memories

What the fornicate has been allowed to happen to this club when we scramble past Liverpool for a place in a qualifying round only 7 years later
Ray, you are a complete nutter but this time around, I think you are right. Up to a point. I refuse to attribute Fergie's complacency in the last few years to malice or self-conscious sabotage. I prefer to think that Fergie's huge ego got the better of him. His treatment of Pogba, his mismanagement of the midfield and the increasingly turgid play points to a man who has bought his own hype and attributed most of United's success with his own brillance than the quality of his players. This also tends to explain the Moyes' appointment: the team was expected to continue to roll along with a manager that Fergie self-identified strongly with, Scottish dourness notwithstanding.
I think that the team needs a thorough rebuild and by that I don't mean going full Madrid-style transfer muppet. By rebuild I mean nurturing young talents like Wilson, Pereira, Januzaj, Pearson,Tuanzebe and Gomes to form a core around which the rest of the team can be built. This process takes time and requires patience from fans eager to write off young players if they don't turn out as Messi 2.0. However, this also means that the culture of small-time expectations whereby a fourth place finish is celebrated at the end of an insipid season must also ends. Giving important roles to average players like Young, Valencia and Fellaini is a dead-end that must be corrected. LVG's shctick of playing Fellaini as a No 10 was exposed in the last five matches and Tony V is not a full-back. After one full season, I still fail to see the direction in which LVG is taking the team: this is not a serious rebuild but rather throwing sh*t at the wall and hoping that something sticks. What would United look like next season? I just hope that it would not be an incarnation of this year's team where the backpost cross to Fellaini has become a go-to move. I bloody hope not.


"A Moyes! My kingdom for a Moyes!" - Sir Alex Ferguson in the famous tragedy " Manchester United's great EPL campaign of 13/14" by respected journo G. Neville.

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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 5:21 pm

i love your arguments and and agree with a lot of what you say.

I do not believe that Fergie was complacent
I don't think complacency is in the mans character

I believe he is a power freak
I believe he is as stubborn as hell
I believe he is greedy
I believe he is demanding
I believe he is a successful football manager.Possibly the best of all time.

Some of the older players have described him as running United like a Sunday football team
He had his hands in everything


It is common knowledge that he loves horse racing
Let's face it that is why we had McManus and Magnier as owners
SAF helped smooth that through

Stubborn and greedy
He got very stubborn and very greedy over the Rock of Gibraltar
To remind those that don't know The Rock was a gift from the owners to SAF
He ran in the colours of SAF and they paid its feed and training etc
He kept the prizewinning.It was a very successful horse(**note this was not the first horse.The first was a complete shitter so they took it back and gave him this one for nothing)
When it's racing career ended they took it back as per their previous agreement
He didn't want to give it back.He wanted them to keep feeding it and him to get the large stud fees
This would still be going on today until they told him at the next board meeting they would present him with a list of questions including why had his son made so much as an agent out of United.Also why had Jorge Mendes,his friend,made so much money and why was his brother Martin living a very expensive lifestyle in South America at United's expense as our chief scout who never found anybody

The Moyes appointment was and is a mystery
Who actually appointed him and why
There is no evidence that it was SAF but he took the can

We do need a total rebuild
We have needed it for 4 seasons,maybe longer
We keep hold of young players that don't improve for far too long
Certainly a lot longer than any top team
Your list of young talent includes Wilson,Pereira who will have a full pre season to show LVG and us what they might have
Bearing in mind that Januzaj played in the same reserve final as Harry Kane it is easy to see a huge difference between the progression of the two
Kane has improved 1000% more than Januzaj.What is more disconcerting for me is that Januzaj has probably gone backwards
If he shows in training what he shows in the reserves he isn't going to get much first team game time
You can't carry if's and but's and exciting prospects when you are playing in the Premier league and Europe
Do it in the reserves and do it on the training ground and that will get you a chance in the League cup and when you get an injury
You have to take that chance immediately or its au revoir at this level
Many fail at all clubs
For me i can't see anything in Januzaj
It's either Sunderland or Cardiff on loan for a year or get rid
He isn't a member of any team wanting to win anything,at this stage of his career

You are correct that Tony V isn't a full back
Young is indeed only an average player
He went from average to shit and this season he has come back to average
Fellaini is not much either.Certainly not at the top level

Blind and Rojo are squad players in a good team
Mata is not bad but too lightweight and too small to be top top class

DDG looks like he is being cashed in and as for Falcao!!!
We've still got Nick Powell,Nani and the pea that nobody wants possibly coming back along with another slow progress merchant in Jesse Lingard.At 23 he hasn't got to the fringes
Never mind give him another 2 or 3 seasons for this exciting prospect to develop

We've got Blackett at right back
Only on the field for a few minutes against arsenal but saw one float over his head and then closed the attacker down fast enough to delect one past Valdes
He must have thought i never played this quality of birth canal in Spain
Have you noticed the last 3 goals United have conceded in 3 games have all been deflections off our defenders

Back to you Jean



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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 5:37 pm

RoddyN wrote:i love your arguments and and agree with a lot of what you say.

I do not believe that Fergie was complacent
I don't think complacency is in the mans character

I believe he is a power freak
I believe he is as stubborn as hell
I believe he is greedy
I believe he is demanding
I believe he is a successful football manager.Possibly the best of all time.

Some of the older players have described him as running United like a Sunday football team
He had his hands in everything


It is common knowledge that he loves horse racing
Let's face it that is why we had McManus and Magnier as owners
SAF helped smooth that through

Stubborn and greedy
He got very stubborn and very greedy over the Rock of Gibraltar
To remind those that don't know The Rock was a gift from the owners to SAF
He ran in the colours of SAF and they paid its feed and training etc
He kept the prizewinning.It was a very successful horse(**note this was not the first horse.The first was a complete shitter so they took it back and gave him this one for nothing)
When it's racing career ended they took it back as per their previous agreement
He didn't want to give it back.He wanted them to keep feeding it and him to get the large stud fees
This would still be going on today until they told him at the next board meeting they would present him with a list of questions including why had his son made so much as an agent out of United.Also why had Jorge Mendes,his friend,made so much money and why was his brother Martin living a very expensive lifestyle in South America at United's expense as our chief scout who never found anybody

The Moyes appointment was and is a mystery
Who actually appointed him and why
There is no evidence that it was SAF but he took the can

We do need a total rebuild
We have needed it for 4 seasons,maybe longer
We keep hold of young players that don't improve for far too long
Certainly a lot longer than any top team
Your list of young talent includes Wilson,Pereira who will have a full pre season to show LVG and us what they might have
Bearing in mind that Januzaj played in the same reserve final as Harry Kane it is easy to see a huge difference between the progression of the two
Kane has improved 1000% more than Januzaj.What is more disconcerting for me is that Januzaj has probably gone backwards
If he shows in training what he shows in the reserves he isn't going to get much first team game time
You can't carry if's and but's and exciting prospects when you are playing in the Premier league and Europe
Do it in the reserves and do it on the training ground and that will get you a chance in the League cup and when you get an injury
You have to take that chance immediately or its au revoir at this level
Many fail at all clubs
For me i can't see anything in Januzaj
It's either Sunderland or Cardiff on loan for a year or get rid
He isn't a member of any team wanting to win anything,at this stage of his career

You are correct that Tony V isn't a full back
Young is indeed only an average player
He went from average to shit and this season he has come back to average
Fellaini is not much either.Certainly not at the top level

Blind and Rojo are squad players in a good team
Mata is not bad but too lightweight and too small to be top top class

DDG looks like he is being cashed in and as for Falcao!!!
We've still got Nick Powell,Nani and the pea that nobody wants possibly coming back along with another slow progress merchant in Jesse Lingard.At 23 he hasn't got to the fringes
Never mind give him another 2 or 3 seasons for this exciting prospect to develop

We've got Blackett at right back
Only on the field for a few minutes against arsenal but saw one float over his head and then closed the attacker down fast enough to delect one past Valdes
He must have thought i never played this quality of birth canal in Spain
Have you noticed the last 3 goals United have conceded in 3 games have all been deflections off our defenders

Back to you Jean
I never thought I would say this and especially with regards to you Ray, but :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: .
I didn't know all the shady stuff about the horse nonsense. I always thought that M&M were the ones at fault. There was definitely favoritism as shown by the constant player loans to Peterborough that immediately stopped the moment Fergie's son was sacked.
I still disagree strongly about Januzaj. He is a cut above reserve level as he showed last week against the bitters. But this constant benchwarming is going to destroy him. He should be played week in week out and we as fans should be patient enough to cut him some slack and not ask for his head every time he makes mistakes. We can't continue to claim our youth development heritage while being currently adverse to the risk that comes with gambling on youth. The same goes for Wilson and Pereira. They would be better served to leave the club if the path to the first team is blocked just like Pogba did.


"A Moyes! My kingdom for a Moyes!" - Sir Alex Ferguson in the famous tragedy " Manchester United's great EPL campaign of 13/14" by respected journo G. Neville.

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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 6:15 pm

i think that Januzaj needs to show a lot lot more on the training ground to get his chance

You can't just put a kid or two in and agree to play them for 4 or 5 games to show what they have
That's what the training ground and the reserves and the League cup are for
If you put them in the first team and play them and they show nowt for 4 games the league has gone

Maybe a loan to Hull,Sunderland or even a lower league team to toughen them up and watch them

Januzaj has shown flashes in the reserves but nothing spectacular and nothing consistent
he has been limited in the first team and has showed nothing either
I am not saying the lad won't make it but i am saying he isn't obviously improving as you would hope/expect

A bit more you might not know about Fergie
He charges £100k for a one hour speech and he won't stay around before or after the speech.
You have to book him through an agency in Altrincham that is run by his son Jason
A friend of mine recently asked Jason if Fergie would speak at the Kick It Out anti racism dinner in London
It is attended by all the worlds football hierarchy and is prestigious and sensitive
A great platform for a man of the people to show he cares
The question was asked by Jason about SAF's fee of £100k.It was told back that they didn't pay.
They are a non profit organisation and they send all monies to anti racism in football projects
Jason suddenly remembered that SAF had blocked out that month for a holiday and wasn't available



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Maverick McKillshark
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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 6:28 pm

RoddyN wrote:A bit more you might not know about Fergie
He charges £100k for a one hour speech and he won't stay around before or after the speech.
You have to book him through an agency in Altrincham that is run by his son Jason
According to their website SAF as a speaker is represented by the Harry Walker Agency, same one the Clintons use.

So what though? What's wrong with engaging with a motivational speaking career now he's done with football?


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RoddyN
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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 6:53 pm

But he's not done with football

He gets £2m a year as a United ambassador for 20 appearances of Ed Woodward's choosing

His son Jason does handle his speaking and bookwriting etc etc
Certain posters have forgotten,the shit he kicked up last year with his book
Exactly at a time United didn't need it but don't let something trivial get in the way of a good profit

This might help you remember
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... sador.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is nothing wrong with making motivational speeches and nothing wrong with charging a hundred grand an hour***please note that fee those that think DDG is being greedy asking for more than £50k a week***

My point is that he WAS available for a Kick it Out fundraiser for £100k but he had double booked when he was getting nowt and couldn't make it
I have no evidence of this btw



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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 6:59 pm

I pay no attention to vitriolic hearsay, mate, especially not from you. You ought to know that by now.

"My mate said Fergie's son said Fergie said..."

Pointless.
Last edited by Maverick McKillshark on Fri May 22, 2015 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Fri May 22, 2015 7:00 pm

Yeah, you wouldn't happen to have evidence of... Yknow... any of it?

That's a lot to lump on someone with nothing to back it.



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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Sat May 23, 2015 3:27 am

So what if he reject to talk in a charity event?


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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Sat May 23, 2015 4:22 am

i just dont understand what was average about Young this year. Who cares what a player was like before this year, this season he was fornicate brilliant, to me he was in the top 3 wingers of the season for any club


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Re: oh how the mighty are fallen

Sat May 23, 2015 9:37 am

Sandies wrote:i just dont understand what was average about Young this year. Who cares what a player was like before this year, this season he was fornicate brilliant, to me he was in the top 3 wingers of the season for any club
That's refreshing to see, I completely agree, I'm glad our Smashley has made such a huge impact on our season. He's been vital.



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