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Sunday 19th August 2018, KO 16:00 BST.
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Sigmar
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A bit of Controversy

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:22 pm

We have a (small) selection of United fans here, so lets see if we can get some sensible discussion going.

Hand on heart and based on a couple of seasons, not the last two or three games, who do you really think needs to be shown the door at United, either as a warning to other non performers, or because you think they are just not United quality.

My list is as follows;
Ashley Young
Chris Smalling
Phil Jones
Luke Shaw
Anthony Martial
Lukaku
Rojo


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RedSte
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 pm

Smalling and Jones from that list. The others can either do a squad job (Young, Rojo) or have the potential to make it (Shaw, Martial)


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Sigmar
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:32 pm

RedSte wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 pm
Smalling and Jones from that list. The others can either do a squad job (Young, Rojo) or have the potential to make it (Shaw, Martial)
Disagree, Shaw is the Physio's favourite at the moment, Martial isn't/hasn't lived up to expectations.

Ok in Martials case he may have been played out of position, but players need to be able to adapt to change, it seems a lot of these can't.

Rojo too seems to spend too much time out with niggles and strains, is that down to over training, poor fitness or just a recurring injury that cannot cope with the rigours of the premeirship.


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Sandies
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 am

When was the last time Shaw was injured?

Martial has 2/3 seasons with 10+ goals from a wide position. Were still in February and hes 22. 24 goals and 20 assists in 80 games. 5 assists to go with his goals this year despite constantly moving around. Hes improved immsensely on last year and even his first year. what more do you fornicate want


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Sigmar
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:26 am

Sandies wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 am
When was the last time Shaw was injured?

Martial has 2/3 seasons with 10+ goals from a wide position. Were still in February and hes 22. 24 goals and 20 assists in 80 games. 5 assists to go with his goals this year despite constantly moving around. Hes improved immsensely on last year and even his first year. what more do you fornicate want
Players like this ?

https://www.premierleague.com/players/3 ... iggs/stats


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dbecks07
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:41 am

Smalling



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Glorio
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:34 am

Smalling, Jones are the 2 that jump out.

Darmian!!!

Blind? Hmmm.... unsure

Lindelof - Jury's still out

Martial has been our most dangerous attacking player from the start of the season so no way I see him being near that list.

Shaw has had a bad run with injuries but he's picking up now. He showed what he can do with Young out, and he was excellent. Not his fault the manager won't choose him over young


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Relly
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:15 pm

Sigmar wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:22 pm
We have a (small) selection of United fans here, so lets see if we can get some sensible discussion going.

Hand on heart and based on a couple of seasons, not the last two or three games, who do you really think needs to be shown the door at United, either as a warning to other non performers, or because you think they are just not United quality.

My list is as follows;
Ashley Young
Chris Smalling
Phil Jones
Luke Shaw
Anthony Martial
Lukaku
Rojo
Lukaku is the only one I would probably remove from your list.

This has been the first season in a long time where my watching has been a bit sporadic due to my current (although just changed for the better) work schedule. I have probably missed about a third of the games this season. Whenever I have watched I have saw nothing out of Martial. I made a comment earlier in the season about maybe cutting our loses and was hit with all these comments about how great he was. I assumed I just missed all his good performances and the next game he played well. But since then, most of the season, I don't think i have watched another game I was impressed with him. I must have really bad luck when it comes to him and just keep missing his good performances. I would probably give him at least next season, but I would need to see a real improvement because as of now I am not buying it.

Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Shaw and Young could all leave tomorrow and I wouldn't blink an eye.


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RedSte
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:54 pm

Interestin you would let all 3 of Rojo Shaw and Young leave. Playing a new formation with no LB or LWB next season? :P


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Re: A bit of Controversy

Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:33 am

Sigmar wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:22 pm
We have a (small) selection of United fans here, so lets see if we can get some sensible discussion going.

Hand on heart and based on a couple of seasons, not the last two or three games, who do you really think needs to be shown the door at United, either as a warning to other non performers, or because you think they are just not United quality.

My list is as follows;
Ashley Young - Totally agree with letting Young go. He is long passed his sell by date, he will give a 100% effort he just no longer has that much to give.
Chris Smalling & Phil Jones - It is difficult for me to think of these two as individual anymore. Whenever they play together it is just a matter or time before one or the other makes a bonehead play. They feed off each others fears and magnify the fault of and problems of the other. Its time they where GONE.
Luke Shaw - He has shown that he has the talent to deserves a chance, but if injuries continue it will not matter how talented he is.
Anthony Martial - Are you on CRACK. Handled correctly Martial will be a ranked as one of the best in the game.
Lukaku - Breaks your requirement because he hasn't been here for two seasons. Not being used like I thought he would be and has shown more football skill that I believed he had. However I do not see his as a long term United Striker.
Rojo - As a left back he is an average Central Defender, as a Central Defender I think he is lucky and surprised to finish any game.
Other candidates.
Fellaini - Was always a tough sell to most United fans and the last 6 months make that sales job even more of a problem.
Herrera - I think its time for him to move on. I really wanted him to be a success but since his arrival his level of play has deteriorated every year.
Darmian - A card waiting to happen on defense and provides nothing on offense. Move him on.


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Sigmar
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:37 am

RedSte wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:54 pm
Interestin you would let all 3 of Rojo Shaw and Young leave. Playing a new formation with no LB or LWB next season? :P
Blind ?


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Re: A bit of Controversy

Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Blinds easily the worst of the lot. Not quite sure why we didn't let him leave in January


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Re: A bit of Controversy

Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:46 pm

How in the world did I forget that sack of shit Felliani, he would be top of my list. I guess I was just able to block the idea of him being at the club completely out of my mind.

To Ste, I would keep Shaw until a replacement could be found, and I would start Blind and use Shaw as back until that time.


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Sigmar
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:24 pm

Sandies wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:57 pm
Blinds easily the worst of the lot. Not quite sure why we didn't let him leave in January

Not true, he has a better engine that Shaw, but has always been played way out of his natural position


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Re: A bit of Controversy

Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:52 pm

Sigmar wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:24 pm
Sandies wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:57 pm
Blinds easily the worst of the lot. Not quite sure why we didn't let him leave in January

Not true, he has a better engine that Shaw, but has always been played way out of his natural position
And has one of the best football brains in the team


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Re: A bit of Controversy

Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:11 am

Sigmar wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:24 pm
Sandies wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:57 pm
Blinds easily the worst of the lot. Not quite sure why we didn't let him leave in January

Not true, he has a better engine that Shaw, but has always been played way out of his natural position

Shaw has more talent and hes started to become a lot more reliable fitness wise

Blind has the brain but he doesn't have the pace strength or height. Hes a squad player, no more than that, a John O'Shea type that can fill in at every position but should be not be in our first 11

My opinion on the defence is that we need 3 new ones for the starting job. Bailly, a partner, and 2 full backs
Shaw Valencia Lindelof Rojo should be kept as the back ups


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Sigmar
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:29 pm

Sandies wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:11 am
Sigmar wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:24 pm
Sandies wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:57 pm
Blinds easily the worst of the lot. Not quite sure why we didn't let him leave in January

Not true, he has a better engine that Shaw, but has always been played way out of his natural position

Shaw has more talent and hes started to become a lot more reliable fitness wise

Blind has the brain but he doesn't have the pace strength or height. Hes a squad player, no more than that, a John O'Shea type that can fill in at every position but should be not be in our first 11

My opinion on the defence is that we need 3 new ones for the starting job. Bailly, a partner, and 2 full backs
Shaw Valencia Lindelof Rojo should be kept as the back ups
Ever hear the one about the best players ?

They run the first five yards in their head................think about it...............


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Re: A bit of Controversy

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:29 am

Sigmar wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:26 am
Sandies wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 am
When was the last time Shaw was injured?

Martial has 2/3 seasons with 10+ goals from a wide position. Were still in February and hes 22. 24 goals and 20 assists in 80 games. 5 assists to go with his goals this year despite constantly moving around. Hes improved immsensely on last year and even his first year. what more do you fornicate want
Players like this ?

https://www.premierleague.com/players/3 ... iggs/stats
Giggs and Martial don't occupy the same position, so it's not really a good comparison. Last season was a disappointing one for him, but his first season and this season have been good. I'd defiantly keep him.

Aside from Smalling/Jones, my question before selling anyone is "who do you replace them with?


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Sigmar
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:45 pm

Dante wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:29 am
Sigmar wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:26 am
Sandies wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 am
When was the last time Shaw was injured?

Martial has 2/3 seasons with 10+ goals from a wide position. Were still in February and hes 22. 24 goals and 20 assists in 80 games. 5 assists to go with his goals this year despite constantly moving around. Hes improved immsensely on last year and even his first year. what more do you fornicate want
Players like this ?

https://www.premierleague.com/players/3 ... iggs/stats
Giggs and Martial don't occupy the same position, so it's not really a good comparison. Last season was a disappointing one for him, but his first season and this season have been good. I'd defiantly keep him.

Aside from Smalling/Jones, my question before selling anyone is "who do you replace them with?
Players who believe in club first, not money, McTominay (?) is showing that we can still produce quality from the academy, my feeling is we need to persue that line, instead of relying on the transfer market, we've been down that route before, and whilst it seems to work in the short term for other clubs, our past shows that we produce better teams from the youth system.


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Re: A bit of Controversy

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:48 pm

Dante wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:29 am
Sigmar wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:26 am
Sandies wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 am
When was the last time Shaw was injured?

Martial has 2/3 seasons with 10+ goals from a wide position. Were still in February and hes 22. 24 goals and 20 assists in 80 games. 5 assists to go with his goals this year despite constantly moving around. Hes improved immsensely on last year and even his first year. what more do you fornicate want
Players like this ?

https://www.premierleague.com/players/3 ... iggs/stats
Giggs and Martial don't occupy the same position, so it's not really a good comparison. Last season was a disappointing one for him, but his first season and this season have been good. I'd defiantly keep him.

Aside from Smalling/Jones, my question before selling anyone is "who do you replace them with?
This has to be one of my biggest pet peeves in football. If someone is shite get rid of them and then deal with it. But keeping said shite player and using them as a crutch or excuse and never replacing them doesn't work.

This is one of the reasons we went so long without buying good midfielders, we had probably one of the worst players to ever stay for an extended period of time in Anderson and because he was on the books the club never felt the pressure to replace. Get rid of the bad player and force yourself to act on the teams shortcomings.


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Dante
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Re: A bit of Controversy

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:52 am

Who mentioned never replacing them?


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