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Saturday 30th March 2019, KO 15:00 UTC.
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Sigmar
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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:53 am

DaveMart wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:30 pm
Sandies:

Sure, we restricted them and with Luke Shaw in the vanguard we did not allow them to play their game.

But we are deluding ourselves if we imagine that that was Pool at their best.

They did not press as they often do, and the support from midfield was lousy,

A more attacking midfield might have given us more gaps, but I prefer to be pessimistic in evaluating the standards to which we need to rise to compete at the very top.

We should be circumspect, and evaluate against the best Pool can do, just as we have to realise that the PSG at full strength would be better with Neymar et al than the ones who bested us.

Under Ole I think we can compete with the very best, but we have to recognise what is still to do, and where we currently fall short.
Tell that to the 99 UEFA squad that beat a suposedly superior Bayern wihout two of our most influential players, sometimes it's not about skill and prestige, it's about prestige and determination, in your opinion the like of Real, Barca and PSG will in every game...they don't


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am

I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:31 am

Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance
Good points and I accept the arguments.
But the board were never ( despite some saying they should) lash out billions in the January window, especially as they had no idea that the turnaround would be so dramatic.
So Ole has to work with what he has, and adapt the style of play to those players available, even if it means its not pretty football, given that we had three crucial injuries in a 25 min spell, and suffered a fourth debillitating one, we did bloody well, a lot of would have caved in, but we dug in and got a point, at half time I and those around me were on the verge of accepting a defeat.

As for Fred you have to rely on Ole's judgement on him as a player, remember Ervra, it took him ages to settle in and become the player he was, Fred may be a player that needs that time, Perreira is getting the game time, he too needs more time, the days of good enough is old enough are way gone, people tend to forget that Lingard is 26, Rashford 21, both are seasoned internationals with a wealth of experience.

Whoever take over as boss will need to spend, we need to get rid of some of the dross that remains at the club, and old players, we have the spine of a great team, it just needs the right players to come through the academy with one or two significant purchases to give the experience it needs


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:17 pm

raycreative wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:04 am
We currently have 3 or 4 top class players for the future
They are Shaw,Pogba,Matic,and Rashford
You can almost certainly add Martial to that list so we have 5--**footnote.I am not sure why the Martial deal is taking so long to finanlise as it should be a no brainer
Is your head buried sooooo far up your arse that you missed the memo? Or maybe the little voices in your head just refuse to acknowledge it? Or is it just FAKE NEWS put out by Woodward?

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/M ... ny-Martial

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... t-to-2024

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/281 ... ed-to-2024

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2019/01/31 ... an-united/

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2019/ ... -contract

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -week.html


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:42 pm

Sigmar:

' sometimes it's not about skill and prestige, it's about prestige and determination, in your opinion the like of Real, Barca and PSG will in every game...they don't'

Please allow me to express my own opinions, instead of giving what you think I might think.

Of course I never said any such daft thing.

It is true however that the team with the better players will win more often, although not all the time.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:12 pm

DaveMart wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:42 pm
Sigmar:

' sometimes it's not about skill and prestige, it's about prestige and determination, in your opinion the like of Real, Barca and PSG will in every game...they don't'

Please allow me to express my own opinions, instead of giving what you think I might think.

Of course I never said any such daft thing.

It is true however that the team with the better players will win more often, although not all the time.
"A more attacking midfield might have given us more gaps, but I prefer to be pessimistic in evaluating the standards to which we need to rise to compete at the very top."

I took this to mean that your opinion was we are unable to compete at the very top, desire can and often does undermine skill


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:47 pm

ArizonaRed wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:17 pm
raycreative wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:04 am
We currently have 3 or 4 top class players for the future
They are Shaw,Pogba,Matic,and Rashford
You can almost certainly add Martial to that list so we have 5--**footnote.I am not sure why the Martial deal is taking so long to finanlise as it should be a no brainer
Is your head buried sooooo far up your arse that you missed the memo? Or maybe the little voices in your head just refuse to acknowledge it? Or is it just FAKE NEWS put out by Woodward?

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/M ... ny-Martial

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... t-to-2024

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/281 ... ed-to-2024

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2019/01/31 ... an-united/

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2019/ ... -contract

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -week.html
unfortunately I can still see any drivel of his that is quoted.
You would think that being a regualr in the 'International Lounge' and having 'connections' at the club would make him party to all this, unless of course he is the coffee machine filler.
He can't even read United's own news :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:15 pm

Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance

Short memories. The attacking football under Fergie didn't exist for the last 10 years of his tenure. The myth remains though

We've played largely attacking football with certain periods in between of hanging on when the situation called for it.

If anything, Solskjaer has largely showed he is mature beyond his year. Anything he's lacked in experience, he's made up for in football nous. He's adapted to every single situation. He's not a one trick pony, and anyone expecting us too attack for 90 minutes a game, 60 games a year, doesn't have a realistic perspective on football.

And Perreira over Herrera? Herrera has been our best player since Ole took over, hes made the midfield tick, allowed Pogba to finally play a discipline free game, and Perreira finally played his first good game in a red shirt. And that was largely to do with the fact that all he had to do was keep shape and not pass or tackle


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance
Memory is a funny old thing, we tend to remember what we want our history to be rather than what was real. My memory is full of games where we dismantled the opposition without really breaking a sweat or running riot over the opposition scoring goals for fun. However, if I work hard at it, I can recall times when we have been totally outplayed, both home and away. I can remember Wenger coming to Old Trafford and having, what felt like, 80% of the ball and playing absolutely beautiful possession football and going home with no points. Unlike many of his contemporaries Sir Alex (and Ole) realized that you do not get points for style or time of possession or even attractive football, instead you get points for not losing and coming away with point is what it’s all about because that’s what wins championships.

As I said earlier, memory is a funny old thing, but for the life of me I cannot remember any game, since Ole took over, where we were “but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games”. I have seen games where we have closed the game down and saw out the win but the only game that I think came close to hanging on was the Spurs game. That was against a team who were playing at home, are ahead of us in the table, are managed by the best coach in football and by all accounts plays the best football the world has ever seen - just kidding. Sometimes we will have to “park the bus” to get the points and hopefully that’s what Ole will do.

Pochettino rightly get a lot of credit for the job he had done at Tottenham, they regularly get a top four finish, they do play attractive football and he has done it all on a shoe string budget. However; I have to ask, what has he won? The attributes of working on a shoe string budget and playing attractive football could just as easily be said of Eddie Howe. In my opinion, great managers will get the very best out of individual and forms those individuals into a team which ends up being better than the sum of its parts. That’s what Ole has done since he took over.

As far as seeing more of Fred in games, I also would welcome that. I really would like to see what made Mourinho think he was worth £53M. Maybe he just needs time to settle in and next year he will be a great midfielder but what we have seen so far this season I would not remove; Pogba, Matic or Herrera to give him minutes.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:17 am

Sigmar wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:31 am
Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance
Good points and I accept the arguments.
But the board were never ( despite some saying they should) lash out billions in the January window, especially as they had no idea that the turnaround would be so dramatic.
So Ole has to work with what he has, and adapt the style of play to those players available, even if it means its not pretty football, given that we had three crucial injuries in a 25 min spell, and suffered a fourth debillitating one, we did bloody well, a lot of would have caved in, but we dug in and got a point, at half time I and those around me were on the verge of accepting a defeat.

As for Fred you have to rely on Ole's judgement on him as a player, remember Ervra, it took him ages to settle in and become the player he was, Fred may be a player that needs that time, Perreira is getting the game time, he too needs more time, the days of good enough is old enough are way gone, people tend to forget that Lingard is 26, Rashford 21, both are seasoned internationals with a wealth of experience.

Whoever take over as boss will need to spend, we need to get rid of some of the dross that remains at the club, and old players, we have the spine of a great team, it just needs the right players to come through the academy with one or two significant purchases to give the experience it needs
Very few people believed or suggested that the board should or would lash out billions in January
Many observers believe,correctly in my opinion,that United have a disjointed transfer policy based on commercial values as opposed to team values
Nevr mind the January window.Look at the window before to see this seasons transfer policy
They let Carrick retire.They sold a goalkeeper and bought a cheaper one**Footnote-To be fair we already have a good second keeper but where did the money go?
We sold Fellaini-Where did the money go?
We bought a young kid in Dalot-This is fair enough as he cost next to nothing so worth a punt
And finally Jose or Ed bought Fred alledgedly for £53m.I find it very hard to believe that this,or any, club would pay that amount for an unknown player who nobody else was after

So moving on past the nil transfer window spend towards a critical window who will the club buy?
Equally as important is who is making the decisions?
We don't have a director of football and no mention of looking for one
We don't have a permanent manager and no mention of what process,if any,is being pursued
All we know is what Ole was quoted as saying at the last traanfer window when asked about possible incoming.He said "I don't get involved with the tranfers"
SoWTF is involved?It can only be Ed Woodward and the Glazers
Anybody trust their judgement??

What this club needs is plain to the eye
TWO CENTRE HALVES,A RIGHT BACK AND A CENTRE FORWARD
You can also add some depth of squad to that and a permanent manager
All the above is relevant ONLY if you want to challenge for top trophies,as opposed to just being a money team

If you just want to be a money team go for Poccetino
He is laughably suggested as being the best manager about.Really??
He has never won a trophy
He is a United style manager imo though
He is happy to work with minimal transfer policy and even when he has a team as good as he has at Spurs he doesn't insist on that extra player that will take them over the hump
He toes the party line and never calls out Levy for not backing him in the transfer market
A good United manager but Ed Woodward will not give Levy £40m to get him when he can have ole cheaper

So wait an see.This summer will be a massive spend and we will all look forward to an important pre season etc etc etc



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:51 am

raycreative wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:17 am
Sigmar wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:31 am
Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance
Good points and I accept the arguments.
But the board were never ( despite some saying they should) lash out billions in the January window, especially as they had no idea that the turnaround would be so dramatic.
So Ole has to work with what he has, and adapt the style of play to those players available, even if it means its not pretty football, given that we had three crucial injuries in a 25 min spell, and suffered a fourth debillitating one, we did bloody well, a lot of would have caved in, but we dug in and got a point, at half time I and those around me were on the verge of accepting a defeat.

As for Fred you have to rely on Ole's judgement on him as a player, remember Ervra, it took him ages to settle in and become the player he was, Fred may be a player that needs that time, Perreira is getting the game time, he too needs more time, the days of good enough is old enough are way gone, people tend to forget that Lingard is 26, Rashford 21, both are seasoned internationals with a wealth of experience.

Whoever take over as boss will need to spend, we need to get rid of some of the dross that remains at the club, and old players, we have the spine of a great team, it just needs the right players to come through the academy with one or two significant purchases to give the experience it needs
Very few people believed or suggested that the board should or would lash out billions in January
Many observers believe,correctly in my opinion,that United have a disjointed transfer policy based on commercial values as opposed to team values
Nevr mind the January window.Look at the window before to see this seasons transfer policy
They let Carrick retire.They sold a goalkeeper and bought a cheaper one**Footnote-To be fair we already have a good second keeper but where did the money go?
We sold Fellaini-Where did the money go?
We bought a young kid in Dalot-This is fair enough as he cost next to nothing so worth a punt
And finally Jose or Ed bought Fred alledgedly for £53m.I find it very hard to believe that this,or any, club would pay that amount for an unknown player who nobody else was after


So moving on past the nil transfer window spend towards a critical window who will the club buy?
Equally as important is who is making the decisions?
We don't have a director of football and no mention of looking for one
We don't have a permanent manager and no mention of what process,if any,is being pursued
All we know is what Ole was quoted as saying at the last traanfer window when asked about possible incoming.He said "I don't get involved with the tranfers"
SoWTF is involved?It can only be Ed Woodward and the Glazers
Anybody trust their judgement??

What this club needs is plain to the eye
TWO CENTRE HALVES,A RIGHT BACK AND A CENTRE FORWARD
You can also add some depth of squad to that and a permanent manager
All the above is relevant ONLY if you want to challenge for top trophies,as opposed to just being a money team

If you just want to be a money team go for Poccetino
He is laughably suggested as being the best manager about.Really??
He has never won a trophy
He is a United style manager imo though
He is happy to work with minimal transfer policy and even when he has a team as good as he has at Spurs he doesn't insist on that extra player that will take them over the hump
He toes the party line and never calls out Levy for not backing him in the transfer market
A good United manager but Ed Woodward will not give Levy £40m to get him when he can have ole cheaper

So wait an see.This summer will be a massive spend and we will all look forward to an important pre season etc etc etc
I think you answered your own question.
But nice try at a sensible post for a change


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:43 pm

Ok i will ask the question in another way then

Where has all the TV and Sponsorship money gone?



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:14 am

Sandies wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:15 pm
Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance

Short memories. The attacking football under Fergie didn't exist for the last 10 years of his tenure. The myth remains though

We've played largely attacking football with certain periods in between of hanging on when the situation called for it.

If anything, Solskjaer has largely showed he is mature beyond his year. Anything he's lacked in experience, he's made up for in football nous. He's adapted to every single situation. He's not a one trick pony, and anyone expecting us too attack for 90 minutes a game, 60 games a year, doesn't have a realistic perspective on football.

And Perreira over Herrera? Herrera has been our best player since Ole took over, hes made the midfield tick, allowed Pogba to finally play a discipline free game, and Perreira finally played his first good game in a red shirt. And that was largely to do with the fact that all he had to do was keep shape and not pass or tackle
The current City, Liverpool, Spurs, Barcelona, PSG mangers certainly have an unrealistic perspective methinks. But then again, they are all big clubs. Herrera is not a good player imo, let's leave it there, we all have our opinions.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:32 am

ArizonaRed wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:32 pm
Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance
Memory is a funny old thing, we tend to remember what we want our history to be rather than what was real. My memory is full of games where we dismantled the opposition without really breaking a sweat or running riot over the opposition scoring goals for fun. However, if I work hard at it, I can recall times when we have been totally outplayed, both home and away. I can remember Wenger coming to Old Trafford and having, what felt like, 80% of the ball and playing absolutely beautiful possession football and going home with no points. Unlike many of his contemporaries Sir Alex (and Ole) realized that you do not get points for style or time of possession or even attractive football, instead you get points for not losing and coming away with point is what it’s all about because that’s what wins championships.

As I said earlier, memory is a funny old thing, but for the life of me I cannot remember any game, since Ole took over, where we were “but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games”. I have seen games where we have closed the game down and saw out the win but the only game that I think came close to hanging on was the Spurs game. That was against a team who were playing at home, are ahead of us in the table, are managed by the best coach in football and by all accounts plays the best football the world has ever seen - just kidding. Sometimes we will have to “park the bus” to get the points and hopefully that’s what Ole will do.

Pochettino rightly get a lot of credit for the job he had done at Tottenham, they regularly get a top four finish, they do play attractive football and he has done it all on a shoe string budget. However; I have to ask, what has he won? The attributes of working on a shoe string budget and playing attractive football could just as easily be said of Eddie Howe. In my opinion, great managers will get the very best out of individual and forms those individuals into a team which ends up being better than the sum of its parts. That’s what Ole has done since he took over.

As far as seeing more of Fred in games, I also would welcome that. I really would like to see what made Mourinho think he was worth £53M. Maybe he just needs time to settle in and next year he will be a great midfielder but what we have seen so far this season I would not remove; Pogba, Matic or Herrera to give him minutes.
1.Pep, Zidane, Pochetino, Klop
2. Closing out the game, paraphrased, Parking the bus and defending for life!


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:08 am

Colin Francis wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:14 am
Sandies wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:15 pm
Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance

Short memories. The attacking football under Fergie didn't exist for the last 10 years of his tenure. The myth remains though

We've played largely attacking football with certain periods in between of hanging on when the situation called for it.

If anything, Solskjaer has largely showed he is mature beyond his year. Anything he's lacked in experience, he's made up for in football nous. He's adapted to every single situation. He's not a one trick pony, and anyone expecting us too attack for 90 minutes a game, 60 games a year, doesn't have a realistic perspective on football.

And Perreira over Herrera? Herrera has been our best player since Ole took over, hes made the midfield tick, allowed Pogba to finally play a discipline free game, and Perreira finally played his first good game in a red shirt. And that was largely to do with the fact that all he had to do was keep shape and not pass or tackle
The current City, Liverpool, Spurs, Barcelona, PSG mangers certainly have an unrealistic perspective methinks. But then again, they are all big clubs. Herrera is not a good player imo, let's leave it there, we all have our opinions.
1. Solskjaer took over the least fittest side in the league. And that's a fact. We were the 20th ranked category in every stat. He's had to have a pre season in the middle of the season while also playing high intensity games every 3 days

2 If you think those managers haven't had to change and adapt during games and sit back when the situation allows for it, then yeah, watch more football


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:46 pm

Sandies wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:08 am
Colin Francis wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:14 am
Sandies wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:15 pm



Short memories. The attacking football under Fergie didn't exist for the last 10 years of his tenure. The myth remains though

We've played largely attacking football with certain periods in between of hanging on when the situation called for it.

If anything, Solskjaer has largely showed he is mature beyond his year. Anything he's lacked in experience, he's made up for in football nous. He's adapted to every single situation. He's not a one trick pony, and anyone expecting us too attack for 90 minutes a game, 60 games a year, doesn't have a realistic perspective on football.

And Perreira over Herrera? Herrera has been our best player since Ole took over, hes made the midfield tick, allowed Pogba to finally play a discipline free game, and Perreira finally played his first good game in a red shirt. And that was largely to do with the fact that all he had to do was keep shape and not pass or tackle
The current City, Liverpool, Spurs, Barcelona, PSG mangers certainly have an unrealistic perspective methinks. But then again, they are all big clubs. Herrera is not a good player imo, let's leave it there, we all have our opinions.
1. Solskjaer took over the least fittest side in the league. And that's a fact. We were the 20th ranked category in every stat. He's had to have a pre season in the middle of the season while also playing high intensity games every 3 days

2 If you think those managers haven't had to change and adapt during games and sit back when the situation allows for it, then yeah, watch more football
1.Least fittest side? Where do you get this stuff from? A professional team, arguably the biggest in the world, with a world class boss, has an unfit team? Its common practice to have a break form the norm and to train in warmer climates.
2. What's our average possession stats per game?
3. Solksjaer adapted to every situation? What a laugh. He risks a player coming back from injury, he substitutes front players when we can't get hold of the ball.
3. You changing your tune about football tactics during games and those before games. Many were tired of SAF's conservative tactics in away games in Europe. Don't make it sound like he was immune to the criticism.
4. Watched football for the last 40 years, played it competitively for at least 30. You need to get off fantasy football!


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:34 pm

Colin Francis wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:32 am
ArizonaRed wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:32 pm
Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
I don't judge games based solely on the number of goals. I'm definitely interested in the means to that end. We held the best attacking team in Europe, no mate, we parked the bus and ever so often hoofed the ball up to an injured player. There is no place for emotion in football, good decision-making is based on facts!

People should not be too quick to label us as negative when perhaps we trying to be factual. What happened to the Busby, Ferguson attack, attack, attack philosophy. We set up in games to play counter-attacking football. where have you ever heard Utd playing like that. Spurs, City, Wolves and the Pile play front-foot football. Its utterly embarrassing to associate the style we have now with this club.

Furthermore, we may have a string of results, but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games. We cannot recover the ball quick enough as a team, we do not have the players to do that. Both Matic and Herrera suck at that and they fizzle out as the games progress. Simple defensive strategy employed against Utd, stifle Pogba, game over!

Ole is not the man for me, he is too inexperienced. Personally I don't know why we don't see more of Fred instead of Mata and perhaps Perreira instead of Herrera. There is no one to replace Matic at the moment, and that is the major factor in our current performance
Memory is a funny old thing, we tend to remember what we want our history to be rather than what was real. My memory is full of games where we dismantled the opposition without really breaking a sweat or running riot over the opposition scoring goals for fun. However, if I work hard at it, I can recall times when we have been totally outplayed, both home and away. I can remember Wenger coming to Old Trafford and having, what felt like, 80% of the ball and playing absolutely beautiful possession football and going home with no points. Unlike many of his contemporaries Sir Alex (and Ole) realized that you do not get points for style or time of possession or even attractive football, instead you get points for not losing and coming away with point is what it’s all about because that’s what wins championships.

As I said earlier, memory is a funny old thing, but for the life of me I cannot remember any game, since Ole took over, where we were “but I'm pretty sure I saw us hanging on for dear life in a number of those games”. I have seen games where we have closed the game down and saw out the win but the only game that I think came close to hanging on was the Spurs game. That was against a team who were playing at home, are ahead of us in the table, are managed by the best coach in football and by all accounts plays the best football the world has ever seen - just kidding. Sometimes we will have to “park the bus” to get the points and hopefully that’s what Ole will do.

Pochettino rightly get a lot of credit for the job he had done at Tottenham, they regularly get a top four finish, they do play attractive football and he has done it all on a shoe string budget. However; I have to ask, what has he won? The attributes of working on a shoe string budget and playing attractive football could just as easily be said of Eddie Howe. In my opinion, great managers will get the very best out of individual and forms those individuals into a team which ends up being better than the sum of its parts. That’s what Ole has done since he took over.

As far as seeing more of Fred in games, I also would welcome that. I really would like to see what made Mourinho think he was worth £53M. Maybe he just needs time to settle in and next year he will be a great midfielder but what we have seen so far this season I would not remove; Pogba, Matic or Herrera to give him minutes.
1.Pep, Zidane, Pochetino, Klop - All good managers, especially Pep & Zidane. Of the other two; Pochetino doesn’t get the best from his players when the game/season is on the line, and for all Klopp’s ranting and ravings on the side lines I don’t see too many of his game time decision actually working for him. When LFC lose out on the title again this season the SoS will be calling for his head.
2. Closing out the game, paraphrased, Parking the bus and defending for life! - If you do not know or cannot figure out the difference between closing out a game and “Parking the bus and defending for life” then I cannot help you.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:10 pm

Colin you are wasting your time explaining the obvious to Arizona
After all he has a very good telly,when it actually works
He understands every aspect of the game and he is always right,in his own head
If you disagree his started answer is to say "YAWN"

You are of course correct Colin
To say that Pocettino does not get the best from his players is just daft
To imply we are never hanging on is dafter
Indeed against Spurs we were totally hanging on and why.
Because Poccetino changed the Spurs game plan at half time.As a result he got the best from his players and a result we were indeed hanging on
Arizona will surely not accept he is wrong so i wait for the expected abuse



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:58 pm

Colin Francis wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:46 pm
Sandies wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:08 am
Colin Francis wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:14 am


The current City, Liverpool, Spurs, Barcelona, PSG mangers certainly have an unrealistic perspective methinks. But then again, they are all big clubs. Herrera is not a good player imo, let's leave it there, we all have our opinions.
1. Solskjaer took over the least fittest side in the league. And that's a fact. We were the 20th ranked category in every stat. He's had to have a pre season in the middle of the season while also playing high intensity games every 3 days

2 If you think those managers haven't had to change and adapt during games and sit back when the situation allows for it, then yeah, watch more football
1.Least fittest side? Where do you get this stuff from? A professional team, arguably the biggest in the world, with a world class boss, has an unfit team? Its common practice to have a break form the norm and to train in warmer climates.
2. What's our average possession stats per game?
3. Solksjaer adapted to every situation? What a laugh. He risks a player coming back from injury, he substitutes front players when we can't get hold of the ball.
3. You changing your tune about football tactics during games and those before games. Many were tired of SAF's conservative tactics in away games in Europe. Don't make it sound like he was immune to the criticism.
4. Watched football for the last 40 years, played it competitively for at least 30. You need to get off fantasy football!
1. When Mourinho was sacked, we were 20th in distance covered per match, 20th in explosive sprints per match and 20th in pressure acts. For "arguably the biggest club in the world," that's a fornicate disgrace. I'm not talking about the warmer weather training, Ole has admitted on several occasions that the fitness levels were not up to standard, the intense levels of training were raised and this is the cause of the current injuries. It's come straight from Solskjaer

2. Who gives a fornicate. Possession is not an indicator of whether you have parked the bus, sat back, or defended for your life. Not when you;'ve been attacking with the fluency and freedom we have since he took over. If you cant see the difference in our play, go watch our last 6 years again

3. I'm not changing any tune. You're complaining about us parking the bus, sitting back and holding on. I can't think of any game this year we had to actually go and do that from the first whistle. In all the games we've "held on for dear life," they all came after we had attacked so easily at the start of the match, we had a lead to defend. (Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea) or had 3 injuries in 20 minutes (Liverpool)

4. You're the one who wants attacking football for 90 minutes straight but want me to get off fantasy football. Got it


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:36 am

raycreative wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:10 pm
Colin you are wasting your time explaining the obvious to Arizona
After all he has a very good telly,when it actually works
He understands every aspect of the game and he is always right,in his own head
If you disagree his started answer is to say "YAWN"

You are of course correct Colin
To say that Pocettino does not get the best from his players is just daft
To imply we are never hanging on is dafter
Indeed against Spurs we were totally hanging on and why.
Because Poccetino changed the Spurs game plan at half time.As a result he got the best from his players and a result we were indeed hanging on
Arizona will surely not accept he is wrong so i wait for the expected abuse
Lol Ray. I have a habit of just continuing when I see emotional and weak arguments. That's my reply to them right there!


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:02 pm

Of course under Mourinho, Van Gaal, Moyes and Ferguson we never had to defend in the final mintues of games..

Here are some facts;
Posession doesn't win games
The amount of corners doesn't win games
How many touches of the ball x player has doesn't win games.

The only stat that matters is that goals for exceeds goal against in any one game..that is what this beautiful game is all about, the rest is all hype created by Sky, designed to attract people to watch a game they don't really like and to bet on it....don't believe me..........the adverts before, after and during the game are all for betting or cars, you don't see womens tampons advertised !
You can have 99% posession but if you don't put the ball in the net.....after 90mins it's worth jack shit.

Fitness
It proves our fitess levels under jose were shit, when we come out of one hard game, have a weeks rest, and then go into another hard game, all the same type of injuries, at the same time to the same type of players.
Jose lethargic walking pace football was shit to watch, and requires very little coaching, it takes weeks if not months to build the level of fitness Ole is demanding back into muscles that have been allowed to degrade fitness wise.

It doesn't matter whether you think player a is shit, or player b shouldn't be in the squad, we are winning games, and isn't that what it is all about, Ole is continuing to break records,

In 15 games in charge, Solskjaer has guided United to 12 wins, two draws and one defeat

Solskjaer boasts a win percentage of 80% and has more wins this season than the man he replaced,

Solskjaer has equalled the Premier League win record for a new boss and also holds the record for the biggest points tally a top-flight manager in their first opening ten games.

The 0-0 draw with Liverpool last Sunday took him to 26 points, which edged out the previous record set by Guus Hiddink when he had an excellent first temporary stint in charge of Chelsea.

The first time United have won eight games away from home on the trot in all competitions. Sir Alex Ferguson managed seven consecutive victories on the road on two occasions but he's been surpassed by his former striker.

Has matched a feat from another former United manager - as Ron Atkinson was the last Red Devils boss to come away with wins in away games against Tottenham, Arsenal and Chelsea.

And you are still not fiucking happy...........it's fornicate unreal


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:50 pm

:clap:



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Liverpool (h)

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:26 pm

Good try Sigmar but unfortunately it's a loosing battle trying to enlighten those that want to walk in the darkness.


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