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Bird Dog
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Re: Life after Matt

Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:57 pm

RedSte wrote:
Bird Dog wrote:I wasn't apportioning  blame on Sir Matt but I think the appointment of Wilf McGuinness as his successor was a staggering decision.Wilf just wasn't qualified to take over from Sir Matt and give coaching instructions to the trinity of Law,Charlton and Best as well as inheriting a team that was past it's best.The odds were stacked against him from the start.It was the start of the decline in my opinion and reached it's climax in 1971 when Sir Matt finally retired and Jimmy Murphy left the club.
The real point I was trying to make was that Sir Alex will be aware of what happened when Sir Matt stepped down and will not allow the same mistakes to be made.

:oops:
Whether Fergie has allowed the same mistake to be made is far too early to say yet.Not embarrassed just yet. :)
As the Lawman asked...how much patience will a new man be allowed? A season?

Not even that Lawman from some ' fans. '


Some great posters around then.k-stand red,King Cantona,ERRN,Liz,Ned,Condor.

But the best of all was the Lawman for me.I've not met anyone with a greater knowledge of United than John.
I hope life is treating him well. (Y)


Heroes come and go.A Legend is forever.

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mikey
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Re: Life after Matt

Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:19 pm

Well bumped (Y)

RedSte
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Re: Life after Matt

Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:18 pm

Matt wrote:
Matt wrote:
Bird Dog wrote:I wasn't apportioning  blame on Sir Matt but I think the appointment of Wilf McGuinness as his successor was a staggering decision.Wilf just wasn't qualified to take over from Sir Matt and give coaching instructions to the trinity of Law,Charlton and Best as well as inheriting a team that was past it's best.The odds were stacked against him from the start.It was the start of the decline in my opinion and reached it's climax in 1971 when Sir Matt finally retired and Jimmy Murphy left the club.
The real point I was trying to make was that Sir Alex will be aware of what happened when Sir Matt stepped down and will not allow the same mistakes to be made.
Well Sir Alex is already building a squad that should not be past it after he retires. And I have a good feeling that he'll be the one selecting a new manager.
Half right.
Yeah but I would have preferred it if you had got the other half right instead! :whistle: :cry:
My old man said be a City fan...

Nothing significant and lasting will ever come of FFP! - RedSte (2012)

RedSte
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Re: Life after Matt

Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:19 pm

Bird Dog wrote:
RedSte wrote:
Bird Dog wrote:I wasn't apportioning  blame on Sir Matt but I think the appointment of Wilf McGuinness as his successor was a staggering decision.Wilf just wasn't qualified to take over from Sir Matt and give coaching instructions to the trinity of Law,Charlton and Best as well as inheriting a team that was past it's best.The odds were stacked against him from the start.It was the start of the decline in my opinion and reached it's climax in 1971 when Sir Matt finally retired and Jimmy Murphy left the club.
The real point I was trying to make was that Sir Alex will be aware of what happened when Sir Matt stepped down and will not allow the same mistakes to be made.

:oops:
Whether Fergie has allowed the same mistake to be made is far too early to say yet.Not embarrassed just yet. :)
As the Lawman asked...how much patience will a new man be allowed? A season?

Not even that Lawman from some ' fans. '


Some great posters around then.k-stand red,King Cantona,ERRN,Liz,Ned,Condor.

But the best of all was the Lawman  for me.I've not met anyone with a greater knowledge of United than John.
I hope life is treating him well. (Y)
I think we can all agree on that :beer:
My old man said be a City fan...

Nothing significant and lasting will ever come of FFP! - RedSte (2012)

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Matt
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Re: Life after Matt

Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:42 pm

And the other John
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DoctorHver
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Re: Life after Matt

Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:24 pm

Lawman wrote:I'm not either

When Matt went, we still clung to the hope he would change his mind

There were two schools of thought about his role as general manager-

Most of us agreed, in hindsight, it was the only thing he could have done, O'Farrell would have completely destroyed United if Matt hadn't stepped in, Docherty wanted to spend 100,000 on Peter Osgood, and a further 300,000 on Peter Shilton, Shilton as wonderful as he was, wasn't worth that, part of that was Docherty wanted Stepney out of the team, there were personal reasons behind that


But other people blamed Matt for everything, Joe Mercer said "Nobody will do anything with that Club as long as the Big Fella is still upstairs"
That was the general opinion of most people, in his absence he cast a large shadow, still being there he cast an even larger one

The problem arose with the likes of O'Farrell and Docherty, because they, like all the other managers believed United had unlimited wealth, we didn't, we weren't exactly broke, but we had got to a stage were we had to count the pennies, for one thing we hadn't played in Europe since 1968/69, George's demise was demolishing the same souvenir shop he'd built, 90% of stuff that got sold was George Best posters, mugs, badges and shoulder bags

The staggering profits of the late 60s and up until 1970 had vanished

I think both arguments are valid, he had to stay, yes. But, he also broke his own rules by doing so, he would never have joined United in the first place if a previous manager was still in place somewhere or other, that's why neither he nor Shankly would take the Liverpool job after the war, the manager didn't have the final say

And maybe that is what Matt was looking for in his successor a man like himself --- if a man, like SAF for example had applied for the job and said "Yes, I'll take it, but I do it my way and you keep your big fornicate gob shut" Then Matt would have gladly stepped down knowing he'd found the right man

maybe?
This post above was written almost 5 years before SAF's retirement, now we are living the modern day verison of it.

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Maverick McKillshark
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Re: Life after Matt

Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:57 pm

That doesn't make sense. What are you trying to say?
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Dante
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Re: Life after Matt

Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:04 pm

That life after Alex is the same as life after Matt.
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Maverick McKillshark
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Re: Life after Matt

Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:29 pm

I don't see how. Not in relation to anything written there anyway. SAF isn't acting as a general manager, the current manager does have the final say and we're certainly not short of cash.

I don't see what parallels are supposedly being drawn here or why that particular post has been dragged up with a comment lauding it for its supposedly prescient nature. What's the point being made?
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Dante
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Re: Life after Matt

Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:41 pm

Yeah, but he's in the crowd, which is basically the same thing.
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Maverick McKillshark
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Re: Life after Matt

Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:30 am

Not really.
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DoctorHver
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Re: Life after Matt

Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:36 am

The point is that we as fans did all prefer that SAF was still the manager. Now post SAF hangover is probably not playing out exactly the same as Busbys and SAF might be the less infulent inside the club than Busby was after his intal retirement and after he retired for second time. Now when you as fan watch the games and you see SAF in the stand it always cross my mind why did he retire? He's at every game both home and away. I did think if you retired form management that you did not bother to go to every match and I wonder hasn't never crossed SAF's mind "what the feck why did I retire, I wouldn't have made that sub or set the team up like that". So based on that I think every United fan that was born in late 1980's have every right to miss watching SAF's Manchester United.

So there some parbells between the two retirements of Busby an SAF but there also some diffrences. United will not get relegated as part of the hangover form Busby. United has hired world class manager only in its second try to replace Ferguson. But United didn't manage to replace Busby until SAF came or some six appointments later.

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marcus leong
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Re: Life after Matt

Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:55 am

DoctorHver wrote:The point is that we as fans did all prefer that SAF was still the manager. Now post SAF hangover is probably not playing out exactly the same as Busbys and SAF might be the less infulent inside the club than Busby was after his intal retirement and after he retired for second time. Now when you as fan watch the games and you see SAF in the stand it always cross my mind why did he retire? He's at every game both home and away. I did think if you retired form management that you did not bother to go to every match and I wonder hasn't never crossed SAF's mind "what the feck why did I retire, I wouldn't have made that sub or set the team up like that". So based on that I think every United fan that was born in late 1980's have every right to miss watching SAF's Manchester United.

So there some parbells between the two retirements of Busby an SAF but there also some diffrences. United will not get relegated as part of the hangover form Busby. United has hired world class manager only in its second try to replace Ferguson. But United didn't manage to replace Busby until SAF came or some six appointments later.
Could it be that SAF is watching the game because he enjoy football games?
Rick: "Weddings are basically funerals with cake."

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DoctorHver
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Re: Life after Matt

Sun May 03, 2015 6:15 pm

marcus leong wrote:
DoctorHver wrote:The point is that we as fans did all prefer that SAF was still the manager. Now post SAF hangover is probably not playing out exactly the same as Busbys and SAF might be the less infulent inside the club than Busby was after his intal retirement and after he retired for second time. Now when you as fan watch the games and you see SAF in the stand it always cross my mind why did he retire? He's at every game both home and away. I did think if you retired form management that you did not bother to go to every match and I wonder hasn't never crossed SAF's mind "what the feck why did I retire, I wouldn't have made that sub or set the team up like that". So based on that I think every United fan that was born in late 1980's have every right to miss watching SAF's Manchester United.

So there some parbells between the two retirements of Busby an SAF but there also some diffrences. United will not get relegated as part of the hangover form Busby. United has hired world class manager only in its second try to replace Ferguson. But United didn't manage to replace Busby until SAF came or some six appointments later.
Could it be that SAF is watching the game because he enjoy football games?
I bet SAF enjoyed watching moyes fail at every resaonable task last season, then how underwelming LVG has been even its not as bad as Moyes.

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Re: Life after Matt

Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:13 pm

This is an interesting article to me as a Dublin United supporter who remembers the awful post Busby years very well.
However ,there are some inaccuracies in it. Denis Law and J. Fitzpatrick (2 Aberdonions!) didn't fight at Palace ,it was at WHL against Spurs
in Nov/Dec 1970, I was there. Wilf McGuinness didn't sign George Graham ,he was one of the Doc's early signings who then told the Press
that Graham was a British Netzer! Ipswich were not ever relegated back to Div 4 after Ramsey left them They were relegated to Div 2 were
they spent some years and won promotion back to Div 1 in the late 60's with Bill McGarry as the manager. Finally, Tommy Doc became United
manager in Dec '72, not in the summer as stated.

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Re: Life after Matt

Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:49 pm

Lawman63 wrote:This is an interesting article to me as a Dublin United supporter who remembers the awful post Busby years very well.
However ,there are some inaccuracies in it. Denis Law and J. Fitzpatrick (2 Aberdonions!) didn't fight at Palace ,it was at WHL against Spurs
in Nov/Dec 1970, I was there. Wilf McGuinness didn't sign George Graham ,he was one of the Doc's early signings who then told the Press
that Graham was a British Netzer! Ipswich were not ever relegated back to Div 4 after Ramsey left them They were relegated to Div 2 were
they spent some years and won promotion back to Div 1 in the late 60's with Bill McGarry as the manager. Finally, Tommy Doc became United
manager in Dec '72, not in the summer as stated.
good to know Lawman. if you have any diary or recollection with United that you wanted to share with us. That would be great, it is good to hear from senior United fans what is like during the dark times. Especially nowadays.

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