United at war-The club is rotten to the core

[raycreative]

Just been reading the Sunday Express and they are covering United in detail.
Understandably as it sells newspapers.
The main headline is United at war with sub plots such as turmoil at Old Trafford
They give their understanding of the situation and i find some of it interesting
The over riding thing for me,because i look for it,is that Ed Woodward and the Glazers are nowhere in sight in either explanation or policy fans whilst the United fans kill each other or forums and have the piss taken out of them big time with no sign of a plan being offered to them

So what does the paper cover
1 It says Ole backs the Glazers to invest in United's future
Ole is urging United fans not to blame the Glazers for this mess
It goes on to say United fans are looking for a scapegoat and fingers are being pointed at Ed Woodward for poor recruitment policy and the Glazers,who are reviled for draining/taking £1BILLION out of the club
Ole insists however that the Glazers have invested £650m since 2013
Ole says "The owners have invested loads of cash-and will continue that.But you can't change the team in one transfer window"
So what do i take out of that-Well firstly nobody defends that is it Ed Woodward and not Jose and LVG who spent the money and he is STILL in place with that job
Also i think the Glazers have had more than a billion and spent less than £650million but even if you believe the figures is that a fair balance whilst Rome burns?

2 The paper says that as reported by Sigmar Pogba's agent wants him to leave for either Madrid or Juventus and Lukaku wants to go to Italy
Much as Ole is insisting that Pogba is going nowhere and they don't want to lose Lukaku either(sic) the United hierarchy are resigned to being forced to accept £200m for those two.
FORCED!!! FFS!!!

3 Phelan is neglecting his role as director of football to concentrate on shaking up the world scouting system
United's scouting system is reported as being in a mess and Phelan wants to be hands on.He thinks the scouting system is over staffed and wants to get rid of some(thus saving money)
He wants assurances from the owners he will have full control of scouting and recruitement(Good luck on that one Mike!!)
What i take out of this-One man cannot do all those jobs and would be a fool to try.That said he will NEVER get the assurances to recruite players

Lot's more to read but what a fornicate mess and not showing any signs

[Relly]

Read this in the mailbox section of football365.com, this guy is a Spurs supporter, but still sees what's going on;

Glazing over
Seeing as everyone is having their say on Man United, I thought I would chip in my ha’penneth. Because here’s the thing I’ve come to realise – players come and go. Managers and coaches come and go. Fans are there forever but have little (if any) influence on what happens on the pitch. The only person or group of people in any club who have both power and consistent presence are the ownership and front office staff (barring eye-watering purchases by oil-rich nation states or oligarchs of course). So if you have a club like United, whose turnover in playing and coaching staff since Ferguson has been immense, you have to start wondering about what is really the common denominator in underperformance. It seems that more and more people are realising that the issue is with the Glazer family and Ed Woodward.
As well as being a grateful ST holder at the wonderful new White Hart Lane, I’m also an NFL fan of some 30 years and more specifically a Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan. As a Buccs fan, I can promise you that the Glazers have no particular interest in on-field success. The Buccs have finished bottom of the NFC South table seven times in the last nine years and that’s despite a recruitment system in the NFL Draft that is supposed to prevent teams from being consistently poor. What the Glazers care about is financial success and herein lies the rub.
A very interesting set of calculations popped onto my Twitter feed this week from @SwissRamble over Champions League income that might give an inkling to the attitude of the Front Office at Old Trafford.
The UEFA coefficient system used to distribute the prize money in 2018/19 is based on each club’s performance in UEFA tournaments over the last ten years. I am sure we could have a healthy debate about that because it basically rewards historically “big clubs” where the rich always get richer. But that aside, it is the system in place. According to the big Swiss fella, assuming no further progress in the competition for any club, what it means is that Liverpool will earn €92m from this season, Spurs will earn €86m, meanwhile Man City will earn €93m and Man United will earn more than any of them at €94m, even though their performance this year has been poorer than the other three teams.
Your own Ian Watson nailed the issue in his article on F365. The club has been counting its riches for years. The fact is that they don’t have to do all that well for the cash tills to keep tinkling. Woodward told shareholders that “playing performance doesn’t have meaningful impact” on the business in May and SwissRamble has worked out the numbers to prove it.
Yes, Solskjaer needs to be assert his authority. Yes, there’s dead wood in the squad. Yes, the Pogba issue is there. Yes, they need to rediscover the United brand of football. The football staff of United will have to deal with all those things. But ultimately, all these patterns of disappointment and failure will keep repeating because the owners and businessmen who run United don’t actually have a great deal of concern for achievement on the pitch beyond a certain level of ‘Top Four’. They don’t need to. They still get paid.
Unless that attitude changes, United fans better get used to the prospect of the same levels of underachievement and mediocrity as I have endured with the Buccaneers for the best part of a generation. It sucks, but that’s the Glazers for you. Money talks.
Father Dave, Maidstone (THFC, it’ll always be White Hart Lane to me)

[Sigmar]

@RElly
What that Spurs fan fails to take on board is two fold, or maybe more, so excuse me while I rant !

Firstly Spurs have spent more time in the wilderness bar the odd FA cup than United ever have, so he is obviously sore about he distribution of UEFA cash.
Secondly and most importantly he is wrong about how UEFA distribute the cash they receive from TV rights and advertising, the latest figures available are for the 2017-18 season. The system he refers to was stopped ( I think) in in the 2014 - 15 season.
The money is now distributed among the participating teams, from qualifiers to final, the nett amount a team could win last year was £57m. On top of that there is a "Market Pool Pot" , which is distributed to the participating leagues in England, Spain, Germay or Italy.
This market pool is shared between the top four teams of each league, based on that leagues "Market Value"
So if an English team wins the ECL then the four teams from England would get the lions share of the pool, ( split four ways) and the winners would get the winners bounty, in all about £100m.
https://www.totalsportek.com/money/uefa ... ize-money/

So in summing up his rhetoric is entirely wrong, the further United go in the competition, the better it is, but United along with any other English club, only get a slice of the market pool, if an English club win the ECL, so it remains true for the next three years at least ( including 2018 - 19) that and English club wins the ECL !

The moral of this story is don't believe what Spurs fans tell you.

I don't know anything about how the American Football Draft system works, but I would imagine it works similar to our transfer system, in order to get the best players, you have to be successful, if you are not you are left with the also rans, old stagers and near retirement players, ( yes that does sound familiar).

Despite what Ray or anyone else says or thinks, for the Glazers to carry on earning their billions, the team has to be successful, you don't get a lot of prize money in mid table or below, and the Europa League pays out about half that of the ECL, so it is in the Glazer economics interest to invest in the team, even if it is through "Shirt Sellers", they may have taken £1bn out of the club since they took over, but ask the question, how much was paid out in share dividends in the same period prior to that ? for one I always loved the day my divi cheque landed on the mat !

Before the Glazers took over, if the club didn't have the money to buy players, the shareholders had to stump up the cash, or the chairman on his own via bank loans, shareholders gave up dividends to pay for players, thats what causes clubs to go bust, the inability to pay debts.

Now you can dispute the figures, but if they are to be believed since Ferguson retired the club has had 3 managers and 8 ? Transfer windows, with a spend of £650m.
With the managerial changes that have happened not all those players bought have fitted into each managers idea of the team, and how the game should be played.
Ole has inherited players from Moyes, LVG and Mourinhou, and those managers have let players we could do with now, Depay, and Blind especially go.
So Ole needs time, fans need to stop hitting the panic button when we have a string of losses, Ole needs to be given the same time Fergie was, 5 yrs, and don't forget in those first five years, Ferguson could buy and sell at almost any time of the season, Ole can't do that.

I'm truly hoping for some kind of clearout this summer, yes he will probably have to sell before he can buy, however he needs at this moment to be working on Hererra, De Gea, Lindelhof, Dalot, and Shaw, tying them down to long term deals, the rest he really needs to sit and think who has the club at heart, and who is here purely to draw a wage.
I'm willing to suffer a few years in the wilderness, because if we keep that revolving door to the managers office, it will be like going back to the seventies.

[Relly]

@RElly
What that Spurs fan fails to take on board is two fold, or maybe more, so excuse me while I rant !

Firstly Spurs have spent more time in the wilderness bar the odd FA cup than United ever have, so he is obviously sore about he distribution of UEFA cash.
Secondly and most importantly he is wrong about how UEFA distribute the cash they receive from TV rights and advertising, the latest figures available are for the 2017-18 season. The system he refers to was stopped ( I think) in in the 2014 - 15 season.
The money is now distributed among the participating teams, from qualifiers to final, the nett amount a team could win last year was £57m. On top of that there is a "Market Pool Pot" , which is distributed to the participating leagues in England, Spain, Germay or Italy.
This market pool is shared between the top four teams of each league, based on that leagues "Market Value"
So if an English team wins the ECL then the four teams from England would get the lions share of the pool, ( split four ways) and the winners would get the winners bounty, in all about £100m.
https://www.totalsportek.com/money/uefa ... ize-money/

So in summing up his rhetoric is entirely wrong, the further United go in the competition, the better it is, but United along with any other English club, only get a slice of the market pool, if an English club win the ECL, so it remains true for the next three years at least ( including 2018 - 19) that and English club wins the ECL !

The moral of this story is don't believe what Spurs fans tell you.

I don't know anything about how the American Football Draft system works, but I would imagine it works similar to our transfer system, in order to get the best players, you have to be successful, if you are not you are left with the also rans, old stagers and near retirement players, ( yes that does sound familiar).


It's literally the opposite in American sports. The way it works is that last place gets first choice for draft picks the next season. That's why in American sports you don't get teams that dominate year after year. Generally speaking, I am not a handegg fan, but I do realize the Patriots have dominated for quite a while now, but before Brady and Belichek they were a nothing team.

Despite what Ray or anyone else says or thinks, for the Glazers to carry on earning their billions, the team has to be successful, you don't get a lot of prize money in mid table or below, and the Europa League pays out about half that of the ECL, so it is in the Glazer economics interest to invest in the team, even if it is through "Shirt Sellers", they may have taken £1bn out of the club since they took over, but ask the question, how much was paid out in share dividends in the same period prior to that ? for one I always loved the day my divi cheque landed on the mat !

Before the Glazers took over, if the club didn't have the money to buy players, the shareholders had to stump up the cash, or the chairman on his own via bank loans, shareholders gave up dividends to pay for players, thats what causes clubs to go bust, the inability to pay debts.

Now you can dispute the figures, but if they are to be believed since Ferguson retired the club has had 3 managers and 8 ? Transfer windows, with a spend of £650m.
With the managerial changes that have happened not all those players bought have fitted into each managers idea of the team, and how the game should be played.
Ole has inherited players from Moyes, LVG and Mourinhou, and those managers have let players we could do with now, Depay, and Blind especially go.
So Ole needs time, fans need to stop hitting the panic button when we have a string of losses, Ole needs to be given the same time Fergie was, 5 yrs, and don't forget in those first five years, Ferguson could buy and sell at almost any time of the season, Ole can't do that.

I'm truly hoping for some kind of clearout this summer, yes he will probably have to sell before he can buy, however he needs at this moment to be working on Hererra, De Gea, Lindelhof, Dalot, and Shaw, tying them down to long term deals, the rest he really needs to sit and think who has the club at heart, and who is here purely to draw a wage.
I'm willing to suffer a few years in the wilderness, because if we keep that revolving door to the managers office, it will be like going back to the seventies.

I think the Glazers want to do enough to be competitive, but couldn't give to shits about winning. And we have bought a lot of players since SAF retired, but very few have been the right players. I'm someone who used to get endless flack on this board because I was the number one poster in the transfer section, always proposing purchasing well known players, only to be told that's not how United does things. Since SAF that does seem to be what we do, we buy big name players, who generally happen to be in a situation where they are desperate to get away from their current clubs, or are free, or available for loan, etc. But we seem to be buying players that are probably going to sell a lot of shirts, but might not be the right position or mentality for the club. I hate to use the shirtseller term on here because it makes me sound too much like Ray, but it's an undeniable reality, generally speaking these are the types of players we've bought, Mata, Falcoa, DiMaria, Sanchez, Lukaku, Zlatan, etc.

As for the Spurs fan, who cares what team this guy supports, the whole point is that someone who has no connection to our club can see exactly what's going on here. I don't get the English mentality of, this guy supports a different football, therefore I denounce everything about them.

[raycreative]

Glad to see that fans are finally accepting the Glazernomics game plan i have been telling you about for 10 years and which will continue

The one thing you didn't explain Ben, about the NFL draft ,was although the worst teams get the first and therefore the best picks they can sell them if they want or take a top player and then swap him
The Glazers do one or the other.As such before the season even starts they have made the profit for the season
Also to remember in the American Football there is an agreement that EVERY team gets an EQUAL share from the mighty TV money
And finally there is no relegation so you know you are going to be in the same league next season no matter what
As such the draft money plus the TV moneyis guaranteed and the games therefore become a pain in the arse to the Glazers
It's just get to the end of the season and fire(let the fans blame) the coach
Tell the City of Tampa that unless they repair the old stadium or build them a new one they will relocate to another city
Seen this pattern anywhere else?

And just to confirm that Ben is correct that United have made more out o the Champions league than any other English team because of past record

Also the summing up of buying odd players for shirt selling is absolutely correct and will continue
Fcuk the football

Looking forward to Messi joining us in 6 years time as a shirt seller

[raycreative]

Just thinking the exchanges and the article from the Spurs/Tampa fan through i totally 100% agree with everything he is saying about the leeches approach to sport and history and the clubs former values

I can understand that possibly not everybody will agree with it
We have had and still do have people blaming Moyes,LVG and Jose for the shit we are now in
I personally don't blame any of them
I think Moyes was too small for this club but he was cheap
I think LVG and Jose were both capable of doing something big.Both passed the Glazernomics test as they cost nothing to bring them
I strongly believe the last 2 were just not listened to or backed by a non footballing hierarchy which includes Ed Woodward,Matt Judge and the Glazer family
Yes a lot of money spent but not on footballers.Spent on commercial only value and the question has to be asked who bought the likes of Falcao,Fellaini,Schweinsteiger,Fred,Baily,Lukaku
I saw it yesterday against Chelsea,another club now nowhere near,who have bought the once exceptional Higuain who is now shit but sells shirts

What i am now going to do personally is sit back and watch what happens
I am not gping to get into whether Pogba and DDg can fcuk off
If they wanted to join a football team as opposed to a brand only why would anybody blame them
Lukaku makes me laugh.He is most of the reason we can't score
They have taken the piss and been rude to Mata and Herrara who i can confirm have had no communication from United about a new contract since November.Good luck lads in your future
Rashford will be next to leave.He is point blank refusing to talk to Ed Woodward after being offered less than half of what he can expect at another club

So let's see what Ole does/is allowed to do
He has minimal contracted back room staff to help him

The priority for the club is the pre season tour
Let's talk again in August when we are playing our games on Sunday/Thursday and see what happened
Then we can start blaming Ole who i don't believe will last next season out

[raycreative]

Papers today are reporting that Ole has fallen out with Martial because of his attitude to warming up for coming on against Chelsea
It was obvious he didn't want to warm up/come on so Ole went for Sanchez
Now reporting there has been a blazing row between the two
The report goes on to confirm what we already knew which was that Jose wanted to sell him last summer but they didn't and AFTER Jose left he got a 5 year contract
So who gave him the contract then?
Or is it still Jose's fault?

[Sandies]

Martial can fornicate off. Everything wrong with this club in one little twerp

[raycreative]

Martial can fornicate off. Everything wrong with this club in one little twerp

If you don't like Martial ask yourself who just gave him a new long term contract
And by the way Martial is no more of a problem than Pogba,DDG,Rashford,Mata,Herrara,Valencia is

It is not one little twerp that is wrong with this club it is the 7 little twerps aka The Glazer family and Ed Woodward that are the issues
Never lose sight of that fact

[RED3bution]

Really don't know what to say other than that Ray is sounding more and more like he has the accurate picture of what's going on.
It used to be Moye's fault, then he was gone, then LVG played really boring, won the FA and got sacked and then Jose, can't stop complaining, and the negative football. Sigh. Eye gouging boredom. He has to go. And Fellaini surely has to join him on the way out. Gone.
So Ole, the Manutd Way epitome, he will remake all things old new. 11 wins on the trot and what do we have now?

Some of these same people will come out next season to blame Ole...sigh! Hampster on a wheel. Break the cycle and maybe you can see what the problem is NOT in the least.
Gary Neville has been moaning like Ray all of a sudden and it struck me, have we been looking in the wrong direction?

[Glorio]

Martial can fornicate off. Everything wrong with this club in one little twerp

He honestly can ... No José, no rows, new contract, and just like that he loses all motivation. What a waste of talent.
Can't remember which game he came in from the bench last - his expression said it all. I'm having a sulk and don't give a hoot about applying any effort here.
Pogba honestly is a tournament player - he can probably focus and apply himself for 6 or so games straight. Expecting any more is wishful thinking. The pedestrian pace of the Italian league suited him I think, as whenever I saw him in the champions league with Juve, his consistency was just about the same as it is for us.
Matic is old and slow, Mata is leaving anyway, and tbh he's incredibly slow too, Herrera is leaving, and I'm still unsure about Fred. Lukaku is probably too heavy to play the way we want and his touch is way below the level you'd expect at this level, the ones that do try i.e. Smalling, Young, Jones are just plain bad at football. It's a similar story with Pereira and Lingard - squad player level really.

Quick Q folks - who would you keep out of this lot? Some have said they trust the youngsters. Mate, we'd get relegated judging by how many times they get their behinds handed to them.

If you were Ole, how many would you honestly keep?

[raycreative]

Ole is looking greyer by the day
He is ageing before your eyes

He is just out of his depth.He did fornicate all at Cardiff and has managed a third rate team in Norway
I always said we needed a top class proven manager who would be backed by the board
Ole was one of my hero's and his image will be as destroyed as it can be by the time these fornicate let him go
A lot ask why he was appointed before the end of the season
The answer is easy
Glazernomics
I have told yu once and i will tell you again
Everything at this club is to do with money and money only
Ole brings in 500 Norwegians a game.They all have a Bobby Charlton or a Number 7 package which brings in the club about £1/2 million pounds a game
30 games in a season = £15m
Plus megastore takings of another £5-10m and drink and hotel etc
The Glazers make £30m a season and pay Ole £7
GLAZERNOMICS

Now look at Klopp
He was happy enough to sell Coutinho and the board backed him when he said he needed a goalie and a centre half
They are now set to be at the top for the next 10 years and they will strengthen again
As will City and Barca and Real Madrid

So who will we get
It is the usual wait and see bollocks isn't it
Which top player in their right mind will come to be exploited by Ed Woodward and the Glazers?
Ole has already told you that although people expect him to buy 6 top players that isn't going to happen
Glorio has suggested that Martial,Pogba,Matic,Mata,Herrara,Lukaku,Smalling,Jones,Young can leave for him
He has not mentioned Bailly,Darmian,Sanchez nor has he remembered that we have not replaced Carrick,Fellaini or Blind(Remember him!!-The average player that might well be in a champions league final)
Why should DDG stay on a 25% pay cut(Footnote-I wonder if Ed Woodward is getting a 25% pay cut)
Now i make that sixteen players and Ole is not replacing six
now that's GLAZERNOMICS

Stop thinking football.Start thinking profit and this team is still on the way down.
This has been obvious for 7 plus years and it hasn't ended
Why do people think this summer will change anything?

[raycreative]

I am now hearing there is trouble at the mill
Ole wants to let Pogba go and build a team around McTominay
Ed Woodward won't hear of it as Pogba is his main commercial asset
Also a senior United player stormed out after training declaring that Ole is the wrong man as he is "Not strong enough or experienced enough"

Oh fornicate dear

[HuSsAiN]

BREAKING: Manchester United are close to agreeing a deal to sign Swansea City winger Daniel James for £15m

Is he the player to take us to the top level?

[raycreative]

BREAKING: Manchester United are close to agreeing a deal to sign Swansea City winger Daniel James for £15m

Is he the player to take us to the top level?

Hussain
He is a Glazer/Woodward style player ie he is cheap
They will probably sell somebody like Fosu Mensah to pay for him if indeed we do get him
Don't forget this is still all smoke and rumours

I am hearing Darmian is off to Italy next week
I am also hearing that Herrara never wanted to leave but is sick of playing with shit players

[raycreative]

It shows how these bastards wear you down when you are thankful you don't have to fight with the Thomas Cook Chinese and Norwegian ipad branches for a European cup final ticket

[Sandies]

I am also hearing that Herrara never wanted to leave but is sick of playing with shit players

They're probably sick of playing with him too

[raycreative]

I am also hearing that Herrara never wanted to leave but is sick of playing with shit players

They're probably sick of playing with him too

Possibly
If i was a top player like Jones,Smalling or Fred i wouldn't want to play with shit players like Herrara

But on a serious note the score so far since Ed Woodward pissed Jose off and forced to to want to leave is as follows
Jose wanted 5 defenders and got none
Carrick-Retired and never replaced.Estimated saving of salary £3-4m a year
Fellaini-Sold for a reported £10m salary estimated at £7m a year-Never replaced
Now
Valencia-not got ready for his departure-Salary saving of about £2-3m a year
Herrara-not got ready for a replacement.Salary saving of about £7m a year
Mata?

Oh the Glazernomics are alive and well

[raycreative]

I am also hearing that Herrara never wanted to leave but is sick of playing with shit players

They're probably sick of playing with him too

I have just had another think about this

I was thinking football as i believe you were where the truth is that The Glazers only think business
I had dinner last night with one of Manchester United's greatest ever captains and he summed it up perfectly
!Which top player(s) would want to join this club in its current position?"
It is currently out of the champions league and is showing no/minimal ambition to get back in never mind challenge or the European Cup and Premier League titles
It has been in steady decline for 7-10 years and is showing no desire to stop the decline as the profits continues to grow
Any top player can earn as much as they can at United in many other top clubs whilst having a chance to leave something on the game for ever

Anybody disagree?

[raycreative]

Did anybody read Jose's interview with L'Equipe?

He suggests,correctly imo, that people now know what a season he had when getting this club to second
He suggests that if Ole is a nice guy he cannot succeed as the club will use him as a puppet.That is happening already
He suggests that the problem is not the players,although he suggests some are trying in on with a weak manager but the main problem is the clubs organisation and ambition ie are we trying to build a team or a business? and are we run by footballing people or bottom line men?
Answers on a postcard eh

[SUBXERO]

Jose just nailed it imo.

[RED3bution]

Did anybody read Jose's interview with L'Equipe?

He suggests,correctly imo, that people now know what a season he had when getting this club to second
He suggests that if Ole is a nice guy he cannot succeed as the club will use him as a puppet.That is happening already
He suggests that the problem is not the players,although he suggests some are trying in on with a weak manager but the main problem is the clubs organisation and ambition ie are we trying to build a team or a business? and are we run by footballing people or bottom line men?
Answers on a postcard eh

That's just sour grapes from Jose. He is jealous that OGS is more likable than him and plays the Manutd Way and got the club off to a flyer and lifted the spirits and didn't lose as much as he did. Or did he?

[SUBXERO]

Did anybody read Jose's interview with L'Equipe?

He suggests,correctly imo, that people now know what a season he had when getting this club to second
He suggests that if Ole is a nice guy he cannot succeed as the club will use him as a puppet.That is happening already
He suggests that the problem is not the players,although he suggests some are trying in on with a weak manager but the main problem is the clubs organisation and ambition ie are we trying to build a team or a business? and are we run by footballing people or bottom line men?
Answers on a postcard eh

That's just sour grapes from Jose. He is jealous that OGS is more likable than him and plays the Manutd Way and got the club off to a flyer and lifted the spirits and didn't lose as much as he did. Or did he?

I don't think he's jealous of what Ole achieved since taking over. Not that it was that much eh. He just could never forgive the club hierarchy for not letting him fulfil his biggest dream as a football manager. Jose doesn't give a f**k if he's loved or not as long as he's succesful. After all, in footballing terms, he's a bottom line man too.

[RED3bution]

I was told it was only Ray who doesn't get sarcasm.....or am I just that bad at it?

[Relly]

I was told it was only Ray who doesn't get sarcasm.....or am I just that bad at it?

You're bad at it. It's impossible to tell your tone or what the fornicate you are talking about 99% of the time.